Hi,
I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
Thanks.
Bob.
On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
https://superuser.com/questions/610819/how-to-resize-img-file-created-with-dd
has a long and detailed description of how to do this...
...basically 'parted' to shrink the partitions and 'truncate' to
shrink the dd'ed image.
I have no idea if this method works, as I have never tried it
Another method cited that again I have no experience of is
Pishrink - https://github.com/Drewsif/Pishrink
This looks at a cursory glance to be a script that automates the
process.
Let me know if this works as I will need a similar script in due
course
In article <ue6fs9$ad15$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
https://superuser.com/questions/610819/how-to-resize-img-file-created-with-dd
has a long and detailed description of how to do this...
...basically 'parted' to shrink the partitions and 'truncate' to
shrink the dd'ed image.
I have no idea if this method works, as I have never tried it
Another method cited that again I have no experience of is
Pishrink - https://github.com/Drewsif/Pishrink
This looks at a cursory glance to be a script that automates the
process.
Let me know if this works as I will need a similar script in due
course
Much appreciate your help, thanks.
Unfortunately, my knowledge is not great and both of those articles
very quickly went way passed my understanding.
I *think* they both assume I have a linux pc, I don't, I have a W10
PC.
For another project I recently looked at getting linux to run virtual
on my PC but again I quickly ran out of knowledge and couldn't do it.
Articles mostly assume far more knowledge than I have.
I was hoping to simply reduce the size of the SD card before it was
even formatted. Maybe that's not possible.
Thanks anyway.
Bob.
In article <ue6jl8$aull$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/09/2023 10:58, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ue6fs9$ad15$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
I *think* they both assume I have a linux pc, I don't, I have a
W10 PC.
Ah. I never thought of that. You could install Linux in a virtual
machine.
For another project I recently looked at getting linux to runOh. Mm. Its non trivial getting virtualBox set up if you are not
virtual on my PC but again I quickly ran out of knowledge and
couldn't do it.
especially technical.
HOWEVER you should be able to get a live Linux working by
installing it on a DVD or USB stick and booting from that.
Oh yes, I remember doing that many years ago, so it's still possible.
I might give that a go.
Or installing Linux on some old piece of hardware left over from
the Resurrection and the Roman Empire...
Articles mostly assume far more knowledge than I have.
Tell me about it.
I was hoping to simply reduce the size of the SD card before itWell I don't think you can do THAT. What you need is an
was even formatted. Maybe that's not possible.
installation on e.g. a 2GB card that can never exceed the size of
the 4GB target.
Frankly why not bite the bullet and install 4GB images onto 8/16GB
SD cards as these are as cheap as 4GB these days?
That's *exactly* what I am doing and then expanding to fill on the
16GB card.
I'm hitting the size problem only because I save a build in stages.
1) OS up and running.
2) OS + samba running.
3) Apache or mpd ... running
4) Pihole or MediaPlayer Running.
By doing that, if I'm testing beta versions of say media player then
I don't need to build from scratch.
But if when i'm building I don't use the smallest 4GB I have and
build something slightly bigger it will not go on a smaller 4GB card
later for the next test.
Bob.
I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
On 17/09/2023 10:58, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ue6fs9$ad15$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
I *think* they both assume I have a linux pc, I don't, I have a
W10 PC.
Ah. I never thought of that. You could install Linux in a virtual
machine.
For another project I recently looked at getting linux to run
virtual on my PC but again I quickly ran out of knowledge and
couldn't do it.
Oh. Mm. Its non trivial getting virtualBox set up if you are not
especially technical.
HOWEVER you should be able to get a live Linux working by
installing it on a DVD or USB stick and booting from that.
Or installing Linux on some old piece of hardware left over from
the Resurrection and the Roman Empire...
Articles mostly assume far more knowledge than I have.
Tell me about it.
I was hoping to simply reduce the size of the SD card before it
was even formatted. Maybe that's not possible.
Well I don't think you can do THAT. What you need is an
installation on e.g. a 2GB card that can never exceed the size of
the 4GB target.
Frankly why not bite the bullet and install 4GB images onto 8/16GB
SD cards as these are as cheap as 4GB these days?
As it happens, I've just had to do that to reduce a 16GB image on a
32GB SD card to < 8GB. I did it just using a Pi and a USB SDcard
adapter, old school style.
1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write SD
card images), just in case.
2. Insert the cloned SD card into the USB SDcard adapter connected
to a Pi.
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should
show it being picked up).
In article <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,<cut>
Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should
show it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to the
pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing appeared.
In article <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write SD
card images), just in case.
Yes. Done.
2. Insert the cloned SD card into the USB SDcard adapter connected
to a Pi.
Yes.
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should
show it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to the
pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing appeared.
I'm only using a headless light version of the pios, is that my
problem or is it just ignorance?
Thanks.
Bob.
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> writes:
In article<cut>
<slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should
show it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to the
pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing appeared.
In putty try typing:
dmesg
(and hit enter)
or
sudo dmesg
(and hit enter)
if you're not logged in as root.
On 17/09/2023 15:18, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write
SD card images), just in case.
Yes. Done.
2. Insert the cloned SD card into the USB SDcard adapter
connected to a Pi.
Yes.
That is a second SD card adapter plugged into the Pis USB port
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should show
it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to
the pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing
appeared.
OK, 'sudo mount' would show what it was and where it was..
I'm only using a headless light version of the pios, is that my
problem or is it just ignorance?
Just ignorance, but its not hard to get there.
In linux all disks systems look like *files* in the directory /dev/
The dir command in linux is 'ls' so :
'ls /dev' should show your disk in there somewhere The SD card you
are running on will be /dev/mmcblk0 and its two partitions
/dev/mmcblk0p1 and /dev/mmcblk0p2.
These will be 'mounted' on /boot, and /
mount | grep mm
is a command uou cvan use to see where they are mounted - the '|
grep mm' means 'select only lines from the output containing 'mm'
e.g.
$mount | grep mm /dev/mmcblk0p2 on / type ext4 (rw,noatime)
/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /boot type vfat (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro)
Now if you plug another SD card into the system via a USB SD card
reader that should be automatically mounted somewhere.
My guess would be in a media subdirectory of your home directory.
so
$mount | grep media should tell you what it is called.
In Linux it is conventional that the whole disk will be files as /dev/something, and partitions on it will be /dev/somethinga or /dev/somethingb or /dev/somethingp1
etc...
These are all the *device names*you will need in order to
manipulate the partitions and the raw SD card
Thanks.
Bob.
In article <ue7352$dmc3$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/09/2023 15:18, Bob Latham wrote:
In article
<slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write
SD card images), just in case.
Yes. Done.
2. Insert the cloned SD card into the USB SDcard adapter
connected to a Pi.
Yes.
That is a second SD card adapter plugged into the Pis USB port
Yes it is.
OK, 'sudo mount' would show what it was and where it was..It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should show
it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to
the pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing
appeared.
sudo mount gives me a half a page of text no meaning to me.
But after some googling I did find the command :
lsblk
That shows this...
NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
sda 8:0 1 3.6G 0 disk
+-sda1 8:1 1 256M 0 part
+-sda2 8:2 1 3.4G 0 part
mmcblk0 179:0 0 14.8G 0 disk
+-mmcblk0p1 179:1 0 256M 0 part /boot
+-mmcblk0p2 179:2 0 14.6G 0 part /
Despite one website telling me that sda would be the machines hard
disc I worked out that it wasn't. sda is the sd inserted via usb.
mmcblk0 is the harddrive.
So I tried to go a bit further...
mkdir /mnt/x
gave Permission denied.
sudo mkdir /mnt/x
sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/x
cd /mnt/x
all the above seemed to work.
tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz
gave
Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive.
I thought maybe I was supposed to substitute some items in that
command.
I'm only using a headless light version of the pios, is that myJust ignorance, but its not hard to get there.
problem or is it just ignorance?
Thanks for the help it is appreciated.
In linux all disks systems look like *files* in the directory /dev/
The dir command in linux is 'ls' so :
'ls /dev' should show your disk in there somewhere The SD card you
are running on will be /dev/mmcblk0 and its two partitions
/dev/mmcblk0p1 and /dev/mmcblk0p2.
That looks correct.
These will be 'mounted' on /boot, and /
mount | grep mm
is a command uou cvan use to see where they are mounted - the '|
grep mm' means 'select only lines from the output containing 'mm'
e.g.
That's clever: :-)
$mount | grep mm /dev/mmcblk0p2 on / type ext4 (rw,noatime)
/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /boot type vfat
(rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=ascii,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro)
Now if you plug another SD card into the system via a USB SD card
reader that should be automatically mounted somewhere.
My guess would be in a media subdirectory of your home directory.
so
$mount | grep media should tell you what it is called.
That doesn't come back with anything, no error, nothing.
In Linux it is conventional that the whole disk will be files as
/dev/something, and partitions on it will be /dev/somethinga or
/dev/somethingb or /dev/somethingp1
etc...
These are all the *device names*you will need in order to
manipulate the partitions and the raw SD card
Thanks for that, I'm learning, slowly.
I think the usb device sd is /dev/sda with the main partition
/dev/sda2 does that sound correct?
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> writes:
In article <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,<cut>
Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should
show it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to the
pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing appeared.
In putty try typing:
dmesg
(and hit enter)
or
sudo dmesg
(and hit enter)
if you're not logged in as root.
On 17/09/2023 16:17, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ue7352$dmc3$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 17/09/2023 15:18, Bob Latham wrote:
tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz
gave
Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive.
I thought maybe I was supposed to substitute some items in that
command.
yes.
man tar will tell you te tar commands,.
I think what you want is tar cfz <directory> <output file>
But a GUI has mane me lazy and I cant remember
tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz
gave
Cowardly refusing to create an empty archive.
I thought maybe I was supposed to substitute some items in that
command.
# tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
In article <87wmwoc0zu.fsf@no-email.invalid>,<cut>
Mrtn <mrtn@no-email.invalid> wrote:
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> writes:
In article<cut>
<slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> >> > wrote:
It should appear as /dev/sdc or somesuch (dmesg should
show it being picked up).
So sorry, I've no idea how I would see that? I was logged in to the
pi via putty before I plugged the device in but nothing appeared.
In putty try typing:
dmesg
That gave me a huge list of text but I'm not sure where that helps me.
Nothing needs substituting, you're just missing the "." as the
final parameter:
# tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
(That says what to put in the tarball, "." means the current
directory)
I'll have another go tomorrow.
On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
I'll have another go tomorrow.
Good luck!
Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
previous ones, and sudo breaks that.
Hi,
I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
I've also had success with simply creating a partition table
with blank space at the end of an SD card.
Now you know how to mount a disk, you need to know how to find
Linux commands that can help you do what you want to do with the
RPi. For the rest of this info to work, you need to know how to
login as the default user AND how to log in as root:
1 the 'man name' command shows you a page (which can be very long)
that tells you what 'name' does and how to use it, Name can be
anything from a command to a Linux system call or function.
2 the "apropos 'text' command shows you a list of commands whose
manual pages have 'text' in their first line of their manual
pages.
3 Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know
of of finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what
you need it to do and finding out how to use it,
4 If you like reading books rather than screens, consider getting a
copy of "UNIX in a Nutshell" or "Linux in a Nutshell" - both are
concise references to the way UNIX/Linux works and how to use it.
There's also "Unix Systems Programming for SVR4" which, although
quite old now, is still a useful guide to writing programs and
applications in C.
Using Tar as suggested is one option. If you still want to use raw
image files where the partitioning is already done for you, then
what I've done for that is create a blank disk image file of the
size I want (using dd reading from /dev/zero), then partition that
and copy over the system files before writing that image to a real
SD card.
I've also had success with simply creating a partition table with
blank space at the end of an SD card. If you just copy over as much
data as will fit on the smaller SD card, it should still work if
the partitions had all ended before the space ran out. Resizing
the last partition on the existing card should work too (make a
backup first). But doing the work on a file instead of a real card
is probably safer and less confusing. Faster too, especially if
you create it in /tmp so the write operations all happen in RAM,
provided you have enough.
Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to manage
this am I?
Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
previous ones, and sudo breaks that.
On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to
manage this am I?
If you log in to the pi as "pi", then issue commands prefixed with
"sudo" so they run as root (administrator), each command runs in
its own "shell", which terminates when the command completes. This
means the effects of some commands don't persist from one call to
another, e.g.:
(Note the convention of using "$" to indicate commands that are
executed as a normal user, and '#' for those executed as root. On
sane systems, this reflects the shell prompt).
Since the horse already left the stable, you can put all this in the afterburner.
In article <slrnugegu8.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
I'll have another go tomorrow.
Good luck!
Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
previous ones, and sudo breaks that.
Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to manage
this am I?
Bob.
On 17/09/2023 21:02, Bob Latham wrote:
In article
<slrnugegu8.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
wrote:
On 2023-09-17, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
I'll have another go tomorrow.
Good luck!
Be sure to do it all from a root shell, not via individual sudo
calls btw, some of the commands need to be in the same shell as
previous ones, and sudo breaks that.
Oh dear. I have zero understanding of that. I'm not going to manage
this am I?
Bob.
Yes you are. One step at a time.
There is a super user account that can do everything. It's called root.
There are two easy ways you can get to 'be root'
One is 'sudo bash', and the other is 'su -'
Both will ask for a password - in the first case it will be yours, in
the second case it will be root's.
Root doesn't come with a password set by default, so the first thing you
need to do is to give it one...
'sudo passwd' will ask for YOUR password, then ask you to type in one
for root, twice. To make sure of whatever.
Then 'su - ' will work, every time.
One of the first things I do is set a root password, because I hate
using sudo when I have a lot of configuration work to do.
Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know of of
finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what you need it to
do and finding out how to use it,
In article <ue8042$il0u$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
Now you know how to mount a disk, you need to know how to find
Linux commands that can help you do what you want to do with the
RPi. For the rest of this info to work, you need to know how to
login as the default user AND how to log in as root:
1 the 'man name' command shows you a page (which can be very long)
that tells you what 'name' does and how to use it, Name can be
anything from a command to a Linux system call or function.
2 the "apropos 'text' command shows you a list of commands whose
manual pages have 'text' in their first line of their manual
pages.
3 Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know
of of finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what
you need it to do and finding out how to use it,
4 If you like reading books rather than screens, consider getting a
copy of "UNIX in a Nutshell" or "Linux in a Nutshell" - both are
concise references to the way UNIX/Linux works and how to use it.
There's also "Unix Systems Programming for SVR4" which, although
quite old now, is still a useful guide to writing programs and
applications in C.
Thank you for that information. Scary stuff. I've done what I've done
so far by googling for answers and a little experimenting. I'm
neither clever nor an academic.
I wanted to learn how to write code for tcpip comms for another
platform, I was advised to get a book called "Unix Network
Programming". It's a thick book and cost a lot of money. I got to
about page 3 before I was out of my depth and beyond rescue. That's
why I have not got any linux books.
Yes you are. One step at a time.
There is a super user account that can do everything. It's called
root. There are two easy ways you can get to 'be root'
One is 'sudo bash', and the other is 'su -'
Both will ask for a password - in the first case it will be yours,
in the second case it will be root's.
Root doesn't come with a password set by default, so the first
thing you need to do is to give it one...
'sudo passwd' will ask for YOUR password, then ask you to type in
one for root, twice. To make sure of whatever.
Then 'su - ' will work, every time.
One of the first things I do is set a root password, because I hate
using sudo when I have a lot of configuration work to do.
LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy, got
as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of the
room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the quickest way, or asking here.
In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen books
will teach you.
Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy a
fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a full
linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...
In article <650786bd@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
Using Tar as suggested is one option. If you still want to use raw
image files where the partitioning is already done for you, then
what I've done for that is create a blank disk image file of the
size I want (using dd reading from /dev/zero), then partition that
and copy over the system files before writing that image to a real
SD card.
I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
What is dd?
What is /dev/zero is that a drive?
No idea how to create a partition table. Wouldn't know where to start.
Thanks for trying to help me but you're way above my level.
'sudo -i' always works for me.
On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy,
got as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of
the room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
quickest way, or asking here.
In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen
books will teach you.
Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy a
fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a
full linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000...
It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.
Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
was on the wall for minis.
In article <ue9577$1mres$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
'sudo -i' always works for me.
Thanks. I've seen that before in the distant past. Didn't understand
why it might be different to just sudo.
Bob.
Computer Nerd Kev (and others),
I've also had success with simply creating a partition table
with blank space at the end of an SD card.
I've got the same problem as the OP, and also thought of the above as the simpelest solution to the problem.
Question : I'm using an OS image (bullseye, bullseye lite) as can be downloaded here :
https://www.raspberrypi.com/software/operating-systems/
Is there a possibility to edit it in such a way that it will automatically reserve some space (dummy partition or otherwise) at the end of the SD card
?
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
In article <slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write SD
card images), just in case.
On 18/09/2023 11:05, Pancho wrote:
On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy,
got as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of
the room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
quickest way, or asking here.
In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen
books will teach you.
Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy
a fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a
full linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000... >>>
It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.
Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
was on the wall for minis.
Back in the early 80s, you needed a PDP/11 to run Unix. They were about £15,000
Or a VAX. They were a LOT more. The Internet ran on VAXes to start with.
Xenix was much later . And it wasn't a whole lot of cop. The best 'PC
Unix' was SCO and if you wanted BSD you bought a SUN SPARC, but that
was long after the PDP era.
The fact that a PI Zero is probably a better computer than a VAX was
back in the day is - astonishing.
All it lacks is a hard drive.
On 17/09/2023 23:54, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know of of
finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what you need it
to do and finding out how to use it,
I would argue it is the slowest.
It's like reading the whole workshop manual of your new car to find out
where the button is to open the fuel flap.
I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed
how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.
On stage 3. mkdir /mnt/x
I got: Cannot create directory, file exists.
I presume that is from my attempts yesterday.
How would I remove that file/directory or whatever it is?
Anyway I ignored it and persisted with
mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/x
seemed to work, no error.
Stage 4.
cd /mnt/x worked fine.
tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
this went away for more than 18 minutes, I thought it had crashed.
Got 22 lines of this...
tar: ./var/lib/samba/private/msg.sock/ nnnnn socket ignored.
eventually machine came back.
stage 6
fdisk /dev/sda2
I ASSUME sda2 is correct ???
On 18/09/2023 09:00, Bob Latham wrote:
I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
What is dd?
I think it stands for 'direct disk' Unix was written in the days long
before even a CRT terminal was common and so its commands were
deliberately short.
It should be /dev/sda for your environment.
/dev/sda is the whole disc. /dev/sda1 is the first partition (a
subset of the whole disc), /dev/sda2 the second partition. fdisk is
about manipulating partitions, so needs to work on the whole disc.
(The partition table is in the first sector/block of the disc)
Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The writing
was on the wall for minis.
I typed sudo passwd <ret>
It asked for a new password x2
Never asked for existing password for pi user oddly.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:17:39 +0100
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed
how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.
SCO bought Xenix from Microsoft, later the product became SCO Unix after the SysVR4 changes were merged into it.
On 18/09/2023 11:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/09/2023 11:05, Pancho wrote:
On 18/09/2023 10:54, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy,
got as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner
of the room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far
the quickest way, or asking here.
In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP
client for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a
dozen books will teach you.
Just keep muddling along and be grateful that these days you can buy
a fully operational multi user multitasking computer that will run a
full linux distro for £15 when back in the day it was nearer £15,000... >>>>
It was never £15,000. Back in 1992 a reasonable PC cost about £2000.
Prior to Linux, late 80s, Xenix ran impressively on a 386. The
writing was on the wall for minis.
Back in the early 80s, you needed a PDP/11 to run Unix. They were
about £15,000
Or a VAX. They were a LOT more. The Internet ran on VAXes to start with.
OK, I know you meant Unix, but you said Linux.
Xenix was much later . And it wasn't a whole lot of cop. The best 'PC
Unix' was SCO and if you wanted BSD you bought a SUN SPARC, but that
was long after the PDP era.
I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed
how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.
The fact that a PI Zero is probably a better computer than a VAX was
back in the day is - astonishing.
The rPi3 is hugely faster, than a VAX 11/780, probably the rPi Zero too. Somewhere between 10-20 times as fast running old software, to a 1000
times as fast if you allow for modern software.
Back in the late 1980s, the company I worked for bankrupted themselves
by trying to develop an Ingress SQL database driven multiuser system on
VAX minis. The hardware just wasn't powerful enough. This was around the
time of the MicroVAX 2000. There was discussion of giving every user
their own MicroVax 2000, which sounded OK to me at the time, but in
hindsight I don't know how they would have distributed the central
database access.
Anyway, I left the company, before it went tits up.
All it lacks is a hard drive.Is the SD card, not a hard drive?
In article <5ae5599655bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article
<slrnugdpsj.vum.${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if@vm46.home.jusme.com>,
Ian
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:
1. Clone the SD card you're trying to shrink (using dd,
Win32DiskImager or whatever you normally use to read/write SD
card images), just in case.
Right. I have got quite a bit further but stumped now. :-)
I typed sudo passwd <ret>
It asked for a new password x2
Never asked for existing password for pi user oddly.
after that su - worked fine.
On stage 3. mkdir /mnt/x
I got: Cannot create directory, file exists.
I presume that is from my attempts yesterday.
How would I remove that file/directory or whatever it is?
Anyway I ignored it and persisted with
mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/x
seemed to work, no error.
Stage 4.
cd /mnt/x worked fine.
tar -czf ~/xxx.tar.gz .
this went away for more than 18 minutes, I thought it had crashed.
Got 22 lines of this...
tar: ./var/lib/samba/private/msg.sock/ nnnnn socket ignored.
eventually machine came back.
stage 5
cd
umount /mnt/x
seemed to go fine.
stage 6
fdisk /dev/sda2
I ASSUME sda2 is correct ???
P
Lots of text and red writing about 'ext4' signatures...
Then a table very similar to your example but after the line:
Disk identifier: 0x9b19dd1d
I did not get the 3 lines
Device Boot start End sectors size Id Type
/dev...
/dev...
Just didn't happen.
Help !
Thanks.
Bob.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:06:48 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:00, Bob Latham wrote:
I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
What is dd?
I think it stands for 'direct disk' Unix was written in the days long
before even a CRT terminal was common and so its commands were
deliberately short.
It's far more obscure than that :)
The dd name was a joke reference to the IBM JCL command DD (data definition). Originally dd was the universal data format conversion tool capable of converting between ASCII and EBCDIC, adjusting parity,
converting case, swapping bytes (endian conversion) and dealing with moving data between block structured devices/files with different block sizes performing block padding as needs be.
It can still do all of this (check the conv section of man dd)
should you ever find a need to do *any* of it.
On 18/09/2023 12:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:17:39 +0100Ah. My bad, I was thinking of Venix, not Xenix. Venix was a heap of crap
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being impressed >>> how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.
SCO bought Xenix from Microsoft, later the product became SCO Unix
after the SysVR4 changes were merged into it.
but would run on a 286...just about
Sco Unix was a damned good platform for a small company 'minicomputer'
It even had TCP/IP ... eventually!
I've now got passed stage 10 and looking at 11.
Lots of questions now...
Do I need to create a script from your text or can I just copy and
paste line by line?
How do I change where to put the new image?
Any suggestions where to put it?
Can I just copy out the image using samba with something I
understand. :-)
How do I delete the tarfile and where is it?
Why did we use a tarfile, was it just to reduce the storage size?
You can use (g)parted to resize the partition manually (obviously on
another machine).
Sco Unix was a damned good platform for a small company 'minicomputer'
It even had TCP/IP ... eventually!
On 18/09/2023 13:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/09/2023 12:59, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:17:39 +0100Ah. My bad, I was thinking of Venix, not Xenix. Venix was a heap of
Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
I can't remember if it was SCO or Xenix, I just remember being
impressed
how quick a 386 PC was compared to minis.
SCO bought Xenix from Microsoft, later the product became SCO Unix >>> after the SysVR4 changes were merged into it.
crap but would run on a 286...just about
Sco Unix was a damned good platform for a small company 'minicomputer'
It even had TCP/IP ... eventually!
We had it running on one of the first 486s. Database for hospitals
around the region (St Barts)
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 13:27:44 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Sco Unix was a damned good platform for a small company 'minicomputer'
It even had TCP/IP ... eventually!
SCO Xenix had MICNET, a LAN based on UUCP over directly connected serial ports. With it running you could cd .. from / and find a directory of machines on the network. It wasn't fast or standard but it worked.
In article <ue8042$il0u$1@dont-email.me>,
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
Now you know how to mount a disk, you need to know how to find Linux
commands that can help you do what you want to do with the RPi. For the
rest of this info to work, you need to know how to login as the default
user AND how to log in as root:
1 the 'man name' command shows you a page (which can be very long)
that tells you what 'name' does and how to use it, Name can be
anything from a command to a Linux system call or function.
2 the "apropos 'text' command shows you a list of commands whose
manual pages have 'text' in their first line of their manual pages.
3 Using the 'apropos' and 'man' commands is the fastest way I know
of of finding a standard issue Linux program that will do what you
need it to do and finding out how to use it,
4 If you like reading books rather than screens, consider getting a
copy of "UNIX in a Nutshell" or "Linux in a Nutshell" - both are
concise references to the way UNIX/Linux works and how to use it.
There's also "Unix Systems Programming for SVR4" which, although
quite old now, is still a useful guide to writing programs and
applications in C.
Thank you for that information. Scary stuff. I've done what I've done so
far by googling for answers and a little experimenting. I'm neither
clever nor an academic.
I wanted to learn how to write code for tcpip comms for another
platform, I was advised to get a book called "Unix Network Programming".
It's a thick book and cost a lot of money. I got to about page 3 before
I was out of my depth and beyond rescue. That's why I have not got any
linux books.
I strongly suspect my settings somewhere but the decompressed file
isn't dramatically smaller than the original.
Original = 3,805,184 KB
new file = 3,411,968 KB
I targeted getting down from 4GB to 3GB as more than 1GB was empty.
On 17/09/2023 18:11, Mrtn wrote:
Since the horse already left the stable, you can put all this in the
afterburner.
What a wonderful mixed metaphor..
I smell a rat.
I feel it in the air.
We must nip it in the bud...
These days I never use man at all. If I can't remember the command
syntax I google it and chances are someone else has documented a crib
that does what I need it to do.
Like I ripped a CD onto my server and all the song title filenames came
with underscores instead of spaces.
Try invoking 'apropos spaces' .
But googling 'change underscores to spaces in linux file names' got me
three lines of bash that simply WORKED
The file name after the "| gzip >" is where the target image will
go. It can be any file path, so if you have external filestore
mounted with samba it can go there directly. There should be enough
space on the live SD card if you remove the tarfile first, the copy
it off wherever you need it.
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:06:48 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:00, Bob Latham wrote:
I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
What is dd?
I think it stands for 'direct disk' Unix was written in the days long
before even a CRT terminal was common and so its commands were
deliberately short.
It's far more obscure than that :)
The dd name was a joke reference to the IBM JCL command DD (data definition). Originally dd was the universal data format conversion tool capable of converting between ASCII and EBCDIC, adjusting parity,
converting case, swapping bytes (endian conversion) and dealing with moving data between block structured devices/files with different block sizes performing block padding as needs be.
It can still do all of this (check the conv section of man dd)
should you ever find a need to do *any* of it.
On 2023-09-18, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
LOL. Don't ever pick up a book on Philosophy. I think it was
Wittgenstein who said 'If you have not bought a book on philosophy, got
as far as page 3, and then immediately thrown it into a corner of the
room. you have no aptitude for philosophy'
:-)
I too have ceased buying Unix and linux books - the Web is by far the
quickest way, or asking here.
In general you can learn far more my grabbing 'a simple TCP/IP client
for Linux' as source code, compiling and debugging it than a dozen books
will teach you.
Still, if you'd really like a written reference, it's hard to go wrong
with Beej's Guide to Network Programming (https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/).
I know it filled in a lot of blanks in my head when I started programming TCP/IP applications.
The sneaking suspicion I have had all my life since I first enocountered
it, that BSD 'sockets' were a truly awful way to interact with a network device
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash",
things work as expected:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 17:18:10 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
The sneaking suspicion I have had all my life since I first enocountered
it, that BSD 'sockets' were a truly awful way to interact with a network
device
Look into System V streams if you want to see a truly awful way to interact with a network device.
On 18/09/2023 17:34, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Mon, 18 Sep 2023 17:18:10 +0100
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
The sneaking suspicion I have had all my life since I first
enocountered it, that BSD 'sockets' were a truly awful way to interact
with a network device
Look into System V streams if you want to see a truly awful way
to interact with a network device.
I did, once. :-)
The first time we got a SUN server equipped with system V unix, and discovered that LPR had gone, and we have no way to make it print to its parallel port, was such a nightmare for the company that I drove into
town at lunchtime, and went to the university bookstore and paid ?55 for
a book on SUNS unix V, because it had one line of about 300 characters
in it which was 'how you enable printing on a system V Unix parallel port'
Today we have CUPS which hides all the ugliness.
In article <650786bd@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
Using Tar as suggested is one option. If you still want to use raw
image files where the partitioning is already done for you, then
what I've done for that is create a blank disk image file of the
size I want (using dd reading from /dev/zero), then partition that
and copy over the system files before writing that image to a real
SD card.
I think I understand the principle there (just), but dear me.
What is dd?
What is /dev/zero is that a drive?
I'd love to do it but don't have anywhere near enough knowledge to do
it?
I've also had success with simply creating a partition table with
blank space at the end of an SD card. If you just copy over as much
data as will fit on the smaller SD card, it should still work if
the partitions had all ended before the space ran out. Resizing
the last partition on the existing card should work too (make a
backup first). But doing the work on a file instead of a real card
is probably safer and less confusing. Faster too, especially if
you create it in /tmp so the write operations all happen in RAM,
provided you have enough.
No idea how to create a partition table. Wouldn't know where to start.
Thanks for trying to help me but you're way above my level.
On 18/09/2023 09:29, Ian wrote:
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash",
things work as expected:
sudo -i
is quicker to type.
---druck
In article <6508d35c@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
dd is basically the standard image file (etc.) reader/writer
program on Linux. I thought you might have been using it already,
but since reading more posts I see you were doing everything from
Windows.
Yes, windows to you but I'm in the Black Country so it's Winders
around here. :-)
dd is basically the standard image file (etc.) reader/writer
program on Linux. I thought you might have been using it already,
but since reading more posts I see you were doing everything from
Windows.
Resizing the last parition isn't difficult in a program like
GParted (which will need to run on Linux).
On 19/09/2023 08:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <6508d35c@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
dd is basically the standard image file (etc.) reader/writer
program on Linux. I thought you might have been using it already,
but since reading more posts I see you were doing everything from
Windows.
Yes, windows to you but I'm in the Black Country so it's Winders
around here. :-)
Oh well in that case just give the pi an 'ecky thump' and it will behave
In article <uebke4$28kuk$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 08:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <6508d35c@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
dd is basically the standard image file (etc.) reader/writer
program on Linux. I thought you might have been using it already,
but since reading more posts I see you were doing everything from
Windows.
Yes, windows to you but I'm in the Black Country so it's Winders
around here. :-)
Oh well in that case just give the pi an 'ecky thump' and it will behave
:-)
I though that expression was Yorkshire is that where you are?
Bob.
On 18/09/2023 20:54, druck wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:29, Ian wrote:su - is even quicker
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash",
things work as expected:
sudo -i
is quicker to type.
---druck
Yes, windows to you but I'm in the Black Country so it's Winders
around here. :-)
On 19/09/2023 08:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/09/2023 20:54, druck wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:29, Ian wrote:su - is even quicker
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash",
things work as expected:
sudo -i
is quicker to type.
---druck
'su -' needs a password entered (on my system(s))
Chris,
You can use (g)parted to resize the partition manually (obviously on
another machine).
I was/am trying to evade multi-step solutions. Especially ones that cannot be automated.
Regards,
Rudy Wieser
OK. If you look into usr/lib/raspberrypi-sys-mods/firstboot there's a[snip]
line:
TARGET_END=$((ROOT_DEV_SIZE - 1))
Resizing the last parition isn't difficult in a program likeIt's quite easy to resize the partition file, do a:-
GParted (which will need to run on Linux). What might be confusing
then is that your disk imager program will probably still create an
image file that's too big to fit on smaller SD cards.
The last time I used image file writers on Windows was for floppy
disk images, so I'm not sure whether modern ones are suitable for
this. With dd you can use the "bs" and "count" options to stop it reading/writing data from/to the image file at the end of the last
partition (if you get your maths right to work out where that is in
bytes and divide that by the "bs" value in bytes to use for the
"count" value - this is one of dd's less convenient aspects).
It's quite easy to resize the partition file, do a:-
sudo fdisk -l <imagefile>
You'll get something like
Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
backup.img1 8192 532479 524288 256M c W95 FAT32 (LBA) backup.img2 532480 15597567 15065088 7.2G 83 Linux
Take the end value of the last partition add 1 and multiply by 512
to convert from sectors to bytes, then do the calculation again as
this is a destructive action and can't be undone. When you are
sure of the number resize the file using:-
truncate <imagefile> <size>
cd/media/usb-drive/
On 19/09/2023 08:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/09/2023 20:54, druck wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:29, Ian wrote:su - is even quicker
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash",
things work as expected:
sudo -i
is quicker to type.
---druck
'su -' needs a password entered (on my system(s))
Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
Are you saying that's why it doesn't seem to have done anything even
though I eventually typed # cd before umount. It then appeared to
dismount to me?
On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
cd/media/usb-drive/
Thats your problem Lady.
cd /
THEN
umount
You cant unmount a drive you are sitting in
Bob Latham wrote:
Are you saying that's why it doesn't seem to have done anything
even though I eventually typed # cd before umount. It then
appeared to dismount to me?
typing "cd" by itself, takes you back to your home directory,
so then your shell didn't have the mounted usb disk open.
In article <ueenp9$2u313$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
cd/media/usb-drive/
Thats your problem Lady.
cd /
THEN
umount
You cant unmount a drive you are sitting in
Are you saying that's why it doesn't seem to have done anything even
though I eventually typed
# cd
before umount. It then appeared to dismount to me?
Or are you just confirming my brain wobble was correct?
Bob.
Bob Latham wrote:
Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
What is an rPi, other than a Linux machine?
On 19.9.2023 13.16, Chris Elvidge wrote:
On 19/09/2023 08:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 18/09/2023 20:54, druck wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:29, Ian wrote:su - is even quicker
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash", >>>>> things work as expected:
sudo -i
is quicker to type.
---druck
'su -' needs a password entered (on my system(s))
So should all other methods to aquire superuser privileges.
There seems to be around RaspiOS setups with one user
permitted in the /etc/sudoers without password.
On 19.9.2023 13.16, Chris Elvidge wrote:
'su -' needs a password entered (on my system(s))
So should all other methods to aquire superuser privileges.
There seems to be around RaspiOS setups with one user
permitted in the /etc/sudoers without password.
Bob Latham wrote:
Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
What is an rPi, other than a Linux machine?
That's right. If you are sitting on the mounted mount point, it
cant get off! It will say 'busy'
In article <ueespp$2v1m1$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
That's right. If you are sitting on the mounted mount point, it
cant get off! It will say 'busy'
Right but that's not the reason the whole thing did nothing *after* I corrected that ????
Bob.
On 19/09/2023 11:16, Chris Elvidge wrote:
On 19/09/2023 08:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:so does sudo...on mine
On 18/09/2023 20:54, druck wrote:
On 18/09/2023 09:29, Ian wrote:su - is even quicker
If you log in as "root", or get a root shell by calling "sudo bash", >>>>> things work as expected:
sudo -i
is quicker to type.
---druck
'su -' needs a password entered (on my system(s))
In article <kn08bjFsjp7U2@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Bob Latham wrote:
Are you saying that's why it doesn't seem to have done anything even
though I eventually typed # cd before umount. It then appeared to
dismount to me?
typing "cd" by itself, takes you back to your home directory,
Yes, that was my thinking.
so then your shell didn't have the mounted usb disk open.
For me that leads to other questions..
1. Was it the correct thing to do?
2. After that did I need to umount?
3. I understand that being 'on' or 'in' an external drive means you
cannot dismount it but was trying what stopped the process from working?
Bob.
Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
I got an SD card and formatted it to fat32. I copied an image file to
it that I had created last week and worked.
Put it in a reader and plugged the reader into a PI I use as a spare
for pi-hole and my intranet.
Read my notes from Monday and a video on youtube ..
$ sudo -1
sudo: unable to resolve host intranet-pihole2: Name or service not
known.
# fdisk -l
This gave me a list but mostly ram discs but my usb was there.
From the video I typed...
# mkdir /media/usb-drive
# mount /dev/sda1 /media/usb-drive/
# mount | grep sda1 (no idea, it's in the video)
# cd /media/usb-drive/
# ls
# sudo fdisk -l <imagefile>
Did the sums.
# truncate <imagefile> -s 3896508416
The '-s' caught me out but I got there eventually.
The PI went away for not long maybe 10 seconds and came back.
Thinking I'd done it, I wanted to get it back into a PC to take a
look. I needed to dismount the usb, how ?????
# umount /media/usb-drive (best guess)
target is busy.
This went on for half an hour or so. Surely it can't still be...
I started to type this post and then I had a brain wobble. Have I got
to get off it first?
# cd
# umount /media/usb-drive
Used win32diskimager and burnt an sd card. At this point I was
guessing that I would now see a smaller 2nd partition and an
unallocated area that I wouldn't get on these 4GB cards but would on
larger cards.
I ran partition wizard.
No change there either that I could see. 2nd partition was still most
of the drive and a good third was empty. No unallocated area.
I either don't understand this or I've done (not done) something
wrong.
Any ideas?
sudo wants /your/ password,
su wants /root's/ password.
You can set up sudo to not need a password.
You shouldn't need to know root's password.
re point 2: if you want to see what storage is mounted, run 'df' to get a list of all mounted partitions (file systems). This shows names of the
file systems, they size in 1K blocks, the space used and available in each file system and the path to the fire system from '/'.
You can set up sudo to not need a password.
You shouldn't need to know root's password.
On Wed, 20 Sep 2023 19:34:01 +0100 Richard Harnden
<richard.nospam@gmail.com> wrote:
sudo wants /your/ password,
su wants /root's/ password.
You can set up sudo to not need a password.
You shouldn't need to know root's password.
For owner operated machines with only one human user it makes
little difference.
In a multi user environment sudo can be set up to give quite
precise capabilities to groups of users and allow accurate tracking of
who does what with their privileges - it can however be irritatingly
hard to prevent every way of escaping to a shell while still providing
useful tools.
On 20/09/2023 20:04, Martin Gregorie wrote:
re point 2: if you want to see what storage is mounted, run 'df' to getdf -h presents the information in a more digestible form
a list of all mounted partitions (file systems). This shows names of
the file systems, they size in 1K blocks, the space used and available
in each file system and the path to the fire system from '/'.
On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
Pi's running Linux are a Linux machine!
I got an SD card and formatted it to fat32. I copied an image
file to it that I had created last week and worked.
Put it in a reader and plugged the reader into a PI I use as a
spare for pi-hole and my intranet.
Read my notes from Monday and a video on youtube ..
$ sudo -1 sudo: unable to resolve host intranet-pihole2: Name or
service not known.
I think you need to ensure you select email and terminal fonts can distinguish between i, l, and 1. The command is:-
sudo -i
That's a lower case letter i.
The PI went away for not long maybe 10 seconds and came back.
You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned resizing
the partition sizes first. Without that step all you will be doing
is not writing some of partition to a new card, and the last
partition will still overlap the end, which things do not like.
# cd
# umount /media/usb-drive
If you have a terminal current directory set to the drive being
dismounted (or files open on it) this will happen. If you still
cant unmount after cd and closing any applications which you think
may have files open, you can do:-
umount -l /media/usb-drive
Did you alter the partition table before truncating?
In article <uefjsc$33fp6$1@dont-email.me>,
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
On 20/09/2023 13:09, Bob Latham wrote:
Not got a linux machine only PIs doing little jobs.
Pi's running Linux are a Linux machine!
Ok, how about don't have a Linux desktop PC.
You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentioned resizingI'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of understanding. 😄 I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
the partition sizes first. Without that step all you will be doing
is not writing some of partition to a new card, and the last
partition will still overlap the end, which things do not like.
work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.
On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentionedI'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of understanding. # I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
resizing the partition sizes first. Without that step all you
will be doing is not writing some of partition to a new card,
and the last partition will still overlap the end, which things
do not like.
work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.
Yeah. That image file is now like a half empty bag of sugar with
the top cut off. It is not a half sized bag. The partition is in
a sense a container, and if you have left the part of it that
defines how big it is,but removed half of it, then the computer
will try and access parts that no longer exist.
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,A very common problem.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
You've truncated the image file, but you've not mentionedI'm sure you're correct but once again I've reached the limits of
resizing the partition sizes first. Without that step all you
will be doing is not writing some of partition to a new card,
and the last partition will still overlap the end, which things
do not like.
understanding. # I read back on the whole thread and see if I can
work out how resize a partition, no idea at the moment.
Yeah. That image file is now like a half empty bag of sugar with
the top cut off. It is not a half sized bag. The partition is in
a sense a container, and if you have left the part of it that
defines how big it is,but removed half of it, then the computer
will try and access parts that no longer exist.
I've spent a few days looking at this trying to understand what
you're telling me and i just don't get it. Would someone please
explain to me where i'm going wrong both in procedure and
understanding.
One of my problems is clearly understanding terminology used.
Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this was
the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD card. I
now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where is it?
Is any of the following correct?
My problem is that I end up with an SD card image with two
partitions, the second one is usually at least half empty. I presume
there is no point messing with the very small first partition?
I need to end the second partition earlier/shorter and change the
last part of the image file to unallocated.
When I've done that I can chop the end of the image file off.
So the bit Druck described the other day using
"truncate <imagefile> -s <size>"
Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the file?
If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done is
end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
I'm dreading asking this but is that the bit Ian described and he and
TNP patiently talked/coached me through last week?
I build images a lot and I need whatever system I use to be
reasonably quick to perform. Ian's procedure is very time consuming
and if that's needed then this isn't really practical for my needs.
It's all been very worth it from a learning POV at the very least.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Bob.
On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this
was the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD
card. I now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where
is it?
The thing is to resize the partiton in the *image* file to allow
the image file to be shrunk.
Is any of the following correct?
My problem is that I end up with an SD card image with two
partitions, the second one is usually at least half empty. I
presume there is no point messing with the very small first
partition?
Not really.
I need to end the second partition earlier/shorter and change the
last part of the image file to unallocated.
Or delete it entirely
When I've done that I can chop the end of the image file off.
Oh I see. Yes. exactly so
Actually within Linux I found this
"If you wish to shrink an ext2 partition, first use resize2fs to
shrink the size of filesystem. Then you may use fdisk(8) to shrink
the size of the partition. When shrinking the size of the
partition, make sure you do not make it smaller than the new size
of the ext2 filesystem! "
This is probably a way to go, to start with a smaller partition
before dd-ing. THEN you can truncate reasonably safely.
But I personally don't find *any* of these methods easy, or quick.
I build images a lot and I need whatever system I use to be
reasonably quick to perform. Ian's procedure is very time
consuming and if that's needed then this isn't really practical
for my needs.
Remind me again what you are trying to achieve..
is it to replicate safely onto SD cards of varying sizes the exact
same image?
If so,
time taken to prepare the image is not so serious. And my system of
copying the files over, then creating a smaller 'virtual disk
image' which will expand to fill the card on booting, may serve.
How this would/will work is this:
0/.Probably start by connecting a USB drive to the pi and using
that as a big scratch area.
1/. Create an empty disk image on it by
copying zeroes from /dev/zero to a disk image file.
2/. use fdisk or parted to create the small VFAT and the larger
ext4 partitions.
3/. mount the two partitions as loopback devices
4/. COPY the /boot
file system onto the vfat partition
5/. COPY the root filesystem
onto the ext4 partition
6/. Label the two file systems identically
with what is in /etc/fstab
7/. Optionally add scripts to the first
boot to resize the partition to the full card size. You will now
have a disk image less than the smallest card you ever want to
use, that you can dd at will onto any new SD card.
It will take a long time to prepare this image, but once you have
it, installing it will be very fast..
Hi,
I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
Thanks.
Bob.
On 17/09/2023 09:58, Bob Latham wrote:
Hi,
I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
Thanks.
Bob.
Can you edit a file in the ext4 partition of the SD card after
burning with raw image but before you put it in the SD slot of the
Pi for first boot?
If so, edit the firstboot file in
usr/lib/raspberrypi-sys-mods/ directory of the second (ext4)
partition. Edit the line TARGET_END=$((ROOT_DEV_SIZE - 1)) Change
the 1 to 1048576 That will make the automatic expansion of the root
file system at first boot to leave approx. 512Mb (0.5Gb) space at
the end on the SD card. I.e reduce the 4Gb down to 3.5Gb
Alternatively, do you have access to machine with a full version of
Raspbian? I.e. with graphical desktop. Install gparted (using
apt). Put target SD card in USB adapter and insert into USB port.
It will show as /dev/sda if no other disks in USB. Run gparted as
root to shrink the second partition (ext4) of the SD card (sda).
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 21/09/2023 12:26, Bob Latham wrote:
Druck talks about resizing the 'partition file'. I thought this was
the image containing two partitions used to burn onto an SD card. I
now don't think that's the case, so what is it and where is it?
So the bit Druck described the other day using
"truncate <imagefile> -s <size>"
Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the file?
If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done is
end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
file?
Yes
If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
Yes
In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
file?
Yes
If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
Yes
Thanks druck that is encouraging.
So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?
Hope my terminology is good enough to be understood.
Thanks.
Bob.
On 26/09/2023 09:21, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
file?
Yes
If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
Yes
Thanks druck that is encouraging.
So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?
Both.
I think you need to 'loop mount' the image to operate on it
You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they
are not windows tools
Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you
need for the duration.
In article <ueuhcf$2g1lp$3@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 26/09/2023 09:21, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uespgl$234t2$1@dont-email.me>,Both.
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
On 24/09/2023 11:00, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uejjqn$3j1j$1@dont-email.me>,
Is that the bit that chops off the newly unallocated end of the
file?
Yes
If so, (and if it isn't I'm really lost), then what I've not done
is end the second partition earlier creating an unallocated area?
Yes
Thanks druck that is encouraging.
So I need to use either gparted or parted. Do they operate on an
image file (ready to be burnt to an sd card) or do they work on a
drive with working partitions (but obviously not the OS drive)?
I think you need to 'loop mount' the image to operate on it
loop mount ??????
You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they
are not windows tools
Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you
need for the duration.
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
start using it now .......
Trying to get my head around all of this, I have this morning gone
through Ian's procedure again. It was easy the second time and
knowing what to expect. I was hoping I could see how Druck's chain
saw suggestion would help but I don't see it yet.
Interesting though..
Before Ian's procedure partition 2 was
3.4GB and 69% used = 2.34 GB data.
After Ian's procedure P2 was
3.0GB and 55% used = 1.65 GB data.
I don't see how all the data can be there?
To say I don't understand would be a big understatement.
Would the procedure be any faster if the files were just copied from
part2 to safe area and copied back to the new partition rather than
using Tar?
It's the tar up and down and the saving of the new image which is so
slow it makes it impractical.
Thanks.
Bob.
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
start using it now .......
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.
Take a look at eBay for used laptops, especially Lenovo ones: all
Lenovos will run Linux and have USB sockets and their Thinkpad
series are solid and well made machines:
- my first laptop was a Lenovo R61i which served me well for 12
years, until its hard disk died in 2017. Its still usable as well
as faster since I replaced the dead disk with a 120GB SSD (by
2017 you couldn't buy hard drives smaller than 500GB but the R61i
hardware can't handle disks bigger than 220GB, hence the small
SSD which is still big enough to holds everything that was on the
dead disk.(spread sheet and word processing programs, GIMP image
editor, C and Java compilation systems, Evolution mail client,
Google Earth, ...
- Currently I'm using a Lenovo T440 that's at least 7 years old (I
bought it off eBay in 2017 (400GB HDD, 8GB RAM) and it is running
Fedora Linux. It also boots happily from a USB-connected HDD or CD
disk. It does everything I need and is fairly rugged 1600x900 with
a decent screen, SD card socket and a couple of USB sockets.
eBay has 'em from GBP 40.00 to GBP 120.00 as well as
I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XP
machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip.
If I start using it now .......
Most modern desktops and laptops should boot from a USB CD drive,
and if the CD drive isn't read-only, most PCs should should
download a bootable Linux disk image and write it to a CD or USB
stick, which should be at least 30-40GB.
I hope the above gives you some useful ideas.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.Take a look at eBay for used laptops, especially Lenovo ones: all Lenovos will run Linux and have USB sockets and their Thinkpad series are solid
and well made machines:
- my first laptop was a Lenovo R61i which served me well for 12 years,
until its hard disk died in 2017. Its still usable as well as faster
since I replaced the dead disk with a 120GB SSD (by 2017 you couldn't
buy hard drives smaller than 500GB but the R61i hardware can't handle
disks bigger than 220GB, hence the small SSD which is still big enough
to holds everything that was on the dead disk.(spread sheet and word
processing programs, GIMP image editor, C and Java compilation systems,
Evolution mail client, Google Earth, ...
- Currently I'm using a Lenovo T440 that's at least 7 years old (I bought
it off eBay in 2017 (400GB HDD, 8GB RAM) and it is running Fedora Linux.
It also boots happily from a USB-connected HDD or CD disk. It does
everything I need and is fairly rugged 1600x900 with a decent screen, SD
card socket and a couple of USB sockets.
eBay has 'em from GBP 40.00 to GBP 120.00 as well as
I'll look into a disc boot device of some sort. There's an old XPMost modern desktops and laptops should boot from a USB CD drive, and if
machine upstairs which my wife has decided should go to the tip. If I
start using it now .......
the CD drive isn't read-only, most PCs should should download a bootable Linux disk image and write it to a CD or USB stick, which should be at
least 30-40GB.
I hope the above gives you some useful ideas.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.Take a look at eBay for used laptops,
On 2023-09-26 16:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.Take a look at eBay for used laptops,
Or thin clients.
I bought a Hp T510 and a fujitsu Futuro s720 for less than 20 euros
CPU like a RPI 4 but AMD or Via, 4 gb RAM and a very small Sata flash
(16 GB). But runs well with 2.5" hdd via usb (or sata)
Runs Linux well, uses ubuntu. I also got a mini-mac, Core2Duo with 4 Gb
ram for that kind of money. (30 euros I think)
Also runs Ubuntu well
Those above are 64-bit.
I got some very cheap 32 bits as well - running debian
On 26/09/2023 20:41, Björn Lundin wrote:
On 2023-09-26 16:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:Very good prices there.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper.Take a look at eBay for used laptops,
Or thin clients.
I bought a Hp T510 and a fujitsu Futuro s720 for less than 20 euros
CPU like a RPI 4 but AMD or Via, 4 gb RAM and a very small Sata flash
(16 GB). But runs well with 2.5" hdd via usb (or sata)
Runs Linux well, uses ubuntu. I also got a mini-mac, Core2Duo with 4
Gb ram for that kind of money. (30 euros I think)
Also runs Ubuntu well
Those above are 64-bit.
I got some very cheap 32 bits as well - running debian
I am not sure I would trust a machine that cheap.
But you trust a 5 euro rpi zero with a cf-card?
These machine have no moving parts (fanless and flashdisk)
I stuck spare hdd in them.
But then again, they are part of my build farm, so they do not contain anything that important, they get code from github when needed
The idea was to find x64 boxes that could build my system
with a small energy footprint. so I also scaled down the CPU, locked it
at 800 Mhz preventing it to go to 1.65 GHz
Or thin clients.
I bought a Hp T510 and a fujitsu Futuro s720 for less than 20 euros
CPU like a RPI 4 but AMD or Via, 4 gb RAM and a very small Sata flash
(16 GB). But runs well with 2.5" hdd via usb (or sata)
Runs Linux well, uses ubuntu. I also got a mini-mac, Core2Duo with 4 Gb
ram for that kind of money. (30 euros I think)
Also runs Ubuntu well
Those above are 64-bit.
I got some very cheap 32 bits as well - running debian
On 27/09/2023 08:57, Björn Lundin wrote:
But you trust a 5 euro rpi zero with a cf-card?
These machine have no moving parts (fanless and flashdisk)
I stuck spare hdd in them.
But then again, they are part of my build farm, so they do not contain
anything that important, they get code from github when needed
The idea was to find x64 boxes that could build my system
with a small energy footprint. so I also scaled down the CPU, locked
it at 800 Mhz preventing it to go to 1.65 GHz
What power does it consume at the plug?
On 26/09/2023 20:41, Björn Lundin wrote:
The concern is power consumption, and that they are too old to support
stuff like Wake on Lan.
If you use a core duo for significant periods of time, and don't need a
room heater, it is cheaper to buy something modern and low power.
It is only if you want a computer that is only turned on occasionally,
that such deals start to make sense.
If you use a core duo for significant periods of time, and don't need a
room heater, it is cheaper to buy something modern and low power.
On 2023-09-27 05:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/09/2023 20:41, Björn Lundin wrote:
On 2023-09-26 16:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:Very good prices there.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 13:56:13 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
I'm sure you're right, it would help if I had a Linux machine proper. >>>>>Take a look at eBay for used laptops,
Or thin clients.
I bought a Hp T510 and a fujitsu Futuro s720 for less than 20 euros
CPU like a RPI 4 but AMD or Via, 4 gb RAM and a very small Sata flash
(16 GB). But runs well with 2.5" hdd via usb (or sata)
Runs Linux well, uses ubuntu. I also got a mini-mac, Core2Duo with 4
Gb ram for that kind of money. (30 euros I think)
Also runs Ubuntu well
Those above are 64-bit.
I got some very cheap 32 bits as well - running debian
I am not sure I would trust a machine that cheap.
But you trust a 5 euro rpi zero with a cf-card?
These machine have no moving parts (fanless and flashdisk)
I stuck spare hdd in them.
But then again, they are part of my build farm, so they do not contain anything that important, they get code from github when needed
The idea was to find x64 boxes that could build my system
with a small energy footprint. so I also scaled down the CPU, locked it
at 800 Mhz preventing it to go to 1.65 GHz
yes, because its new, and didn't cost 500 when it was new ten years ago...
But you trust a 5 euro rpi zero with a cf-card?
The idea was to find x64 boxes that could build my system
with a small energy footprint. so I also scaled down the CPU, locked
it at 800 Mhz preventing it to go to 1.65 GHz
Well low power means Arm - best MIPS for yer buck there is.
On 2023-09-27 12:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
yes, because its new, and didn't cost 500 when it was new ten years
But you trust a 5 euro rpi zero with a cf-card?
ago...
So then I should not trust my pis from 2012?
The Fujitsu went on the market 2014
And I really doubt it cost 500 as new
<https://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-releases/2014/0514-03.html>
state 59600 yen in 2014, which is about 380 euros
The idea was to find x64 boxes that could build my system
with a small energy footprint. so I also scaled down the CPU, locked
it at 800 Mhz preventing it to go to 1.65 GHz
Well low power means Arm - best MIPS for yer buck there is.
As I stated above : x64
Arm is (usually) not x64, even though there was a discussion somewhere
if x64 refers to only the intel instruction set or to all 64 bits
instruction sets, including ARM64.
To me it was obvious that I was talking intel instruction set, not
ARM64. Perhaps that was a false assumption on my part.
I do have an unmentioned constraint of a commercial compiler needing x86_64
So, with 11W measured power consumption at 1.65 GHz <https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/Futro/s720/>
and then scaled down to 800 MHz,
I think it is actually less power hungry than a PI 4
Pi's themselves do not have LCD screens that die, keyboards that wear
out. plastic cases that turn to dust...touch screens that stop working...batteries that lose capacity. These are what go on laptops,
hence my avoidance of uber cheap ones these days
Desktops come with none of those - they last well
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
On 2023-09-27, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
and other people who actually measure this stuff instead of guessing or woolly hand waving say it uses 6.4W with all 4 cores stressed.
On 2023-09-27 14:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Pi's themselves do not have LCD screens that die, keyboards that wear
out. plastic cases that turn to dust...touch screens that stop
working...batteries that lose capacity. These are what go on laptops,
hence my avoidance of uber cheap ones these days
Desktops come with none of those - they last well
Thin clients are desktops.
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
On 2023-09-27 21:22, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2023-09-27, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
and other people who actually measure this stuff instead of guessing or woolly hand waving say it uses 6.4W with all 4 cores stressed.
Interesting.
I'll need to replace my power supply to my Pi4 then as
It sometimes dies during compilation uses all cores.
It does have a 5v, 3 A power supply.
It is then a liar.
On 27/09/2023 14:39, Björn Lundin wrote:
On 2023-09-27 14:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:What load?
Pi's themselves do not have LCD screens that die, keyboards that wear
out. plastic cases that turn to dust...touch screens that stop
working...batteries that lose capacity. These are what go on laptops,
hence my avoidance of uber cheap ones these days
Desktops come with none of those - they last well
Thin clients are desktops.
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
On 2023-09-28 16:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/09/2023 14:39, Björn Lundin wrote:
On 2023-09-27 14:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:What load?
Pi's themselves do not have LCD screens that die, keyboards that
wear out. plastic cases that turn to dust...touch screens that stop
working...batteries that lose capacity. These are what go on
laptops, hence my avoidance of uber cheap ones these days
Desktops come with none of those - they last well
Thin clients are desktops.
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
compiling a 1.5 Mloc system with -j0.
But now it seems like it is a bad power supply that is the culprit,
as others has suggested
In message <uf3ajm$3j70d$1@dont-email.me>
Björn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-27 21:22, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2023-09-27, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
and other people who actually measure this stuff instead of guessing or
woolly hand waving say it uses 6.4W with all 4 cores stressed.
Interesting.
I'll need to replace my power supply to my Pi4 then as
It sometimes dies during compilation uses all cores.
It does have a 5v, 3 A power supply.
It is then a liar.
Over the years I've come across three power supplies that would no longer deliver their rated current. The most likely explanation is that a low
value resistor, used for current sensing, has gone high in value, or its solder joints are a bit dry.
David
On 2023-09-27 21:22, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2023-09-27, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
and other people who actually measure this stuff instead of guessing or
woolly hand waving say it uses 6.4W with all 4 cores stressed.
Interesting.
I'll need to replace my power supply to my Pi4 then as
It sometimes dies during compilation uses all cores.
It does have a 5v, 3 A power supply.
It is then a liar.
On 2023-09-28, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-27 21:22, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2023-09-27, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
and other people who actually measure this stuff instead of guessing or
woolly hand waving say it uses 6.4W with all 4 cores stressed.
Interesting.
I'll need to replace my power supply to my Pi4 then as
It sometimes dies during compilation uses all cores.
It does have a 5v, 3 A power supply.
It is then a liar.
That is rather simplistic. It is probably that your supply is not
delivering at the full voltage when more current is taken.
Check in you syslog entries for entries indicating that the voltage has
gone low. The onboard low 5v detection is given before the voltage has
gone low enough tro make the board fail.
I have a power supply that supplies a pi4 and an attached USB3 5inch harddrive, and when the drive is driven hard the current drawn draws the
5v line down enough to trigger the low voltage warning - but luckily not enough to cause a board crash.
Jim
On 2023-09-28, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:^^^^^
On 2023-09-27 21:22, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2023-09-27, Bj??rn Lundin <bnl@nowhere.com> wrote:
The Pi4 needs 15w or it dies under load
and other people who actually measure this stuff instead of guessing or
woolly hand waving say it uses 6.4W with all 4 cores stressed.
Interesting.
I'll need to replace my power supply to my Pi4 then as
It sometimes dies during compilation uses all cores.
It does have a 5v, 3 A power supply.
It is then a liar.
That is rather simplistic. It is probably that your supply is not
delivering at the full voltage when more current is taken.
Check in you syslog entries for entries indicating that the voltage has
gone low. The onboard low 5v detection is given before the voltage has
gone low enough tro make the board fail.
I have a power supply that supplies a pi4 and an attached USB3 5inch
harddrive, and when the drive is driven hard the current drawn draws the
5v line down enough to trigger the low voltage warning - but luckily not enough to cause a board crash.
Jim
You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they
are not windows tools
Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you
need for the duration.
In article <ueuhcf$2g1lp$3@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though - they
are not windows tools
Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all you
need for the duration.
I've just spent a couple of days attempting to get debian 12 to run
from a USB drive. The process involves creating an install usb device
first. I managed this fine and it would boot up fine instead of the
W10 on the C drive. :-)
Then you boot to the install usb and then also plug in another usb
drive on which the installer installs debian. I watched multiple
video first to make sure I was up to speed. It's a long process.
It takes the best part of an hour and then comes the point of booting
debian from the new OS drive. Simply, it doesn't boot! It instantly
without any preamble or error goes to a grey screen, dead as dead.
I tried it in 3 pcs, same in all of them.
Repeated the whole process, still the same.
At this point I remembered why when nearly 20 years ago and had to
use some linux at work I remembered how I hated it. :-(
I may find the energy later to try ubuntu later, it looks a simpler
install.
I got thinking....
Going back to shrinking a working project image.. Why not create
another empty drive with roughly the correct but much smaller 2nd
partition drive. First partition I presume fat32 and second ext4.
Then copy the files across.
Would that work?
I still have the issue of saving it out somehow but would that be faster/easier?
Cheers,
Bob.
On 01/10/2023 09:57, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ueuhcf$2g1lp$3@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
You do need a working linux machine to utilise them though -
they are not windows tools
Booting a live CD/DVD/USB drive linux system will net you all
you need for the duration.
I've just spent a couple of days attempting to get debian 12 to
run from a USB drive. The process involves creating an install
usb device first. I managed this fine and it would boot up fine
instead of the W10 on the C drive. :-)
Then you boot to the install usb and then also plug in another
usb drive on which the installer installs debian. I watched
multiple video first to make sure I was up to speed. It's a long
process.
I am not sure that would work. Though I cant quite work out
why...I am thinking that the boot loader would need to be
explicitly told to put a boot sector on the stick rather than on
the PCs hard drive.
It takes the best part of an hour and then comes the point of
booting debian from the new OS drive. Simply, it doesn't boot! It
instantly without any preamble or error goes to a grey screen,
dead as dead.
I tried it in 3 pcs, same in all of them. Repeated the whole
process, still the same.
Haven't you got a gash PC you could make 'linux only'?
At this point I remembered why when nearly 20 years ago and had
to use some linux at work I remembered how I hated it. :-(
I may find the energy later to try ubuntu later, it looks a
simpler install.
Try Linux Mint, it is even simpler than Ubuntu
They really went to town making it simple
And things are not what they were 20 years ago,
I got thinking....
Going back to shrinking a working project image.. Why not create
another empty drive with roughly the correct but much smaller 2nd
partition drive. First partition I presume fat32 and second ext4.
Then copy the files across.
Would that work?
Yes, but it is very slow and there might be issues if the partition
IDs are different.
What is probably better is to install Raspios and *then* copy the
[important] files across
I still have the issue of saving it out somehow but would that be faster/easier?
It might be. The problem you are having is like the problem I used
to have with OS/X - there is this deep dark forest with this
bright sunlit path through it, but it doesn't go to where you want
to end up, and the moment you strike off through the forest there
are no signposts whatsoever, just skeletons of those who went
before.
Yes, but it is very slow and there might be issues if the partition
IDs are different.
Don't know about partition IDs.
What is probably better is to install Raspios and*then* copy theI can't recall how large the ext4 partition is after just an install,
[important] files across
I'll have to look.
Splendid image of the reality.I still have the issue of saving it out somehow but would that beIt might be. The problem you are having is like the problem I used
faster/easier?
to have with OS/X - there is this deep dark forest with this
bright sunlit path through it, but it doesn't go to where you want
to end up, and the moment you strike off through the forest there
are no signposts whatsoever, just skeletons of those who went
before.
Bob.
Do try Mint. It doesnt work any better once installed, but it is a
heck of a sight easier to get installed. They went to a huge
amount of trouble on the installation process, and it is built
over ubuntu which is built on debian, but the work went in to
making it very easy for windows uses to migrate to.
There are I think four flavours. LXDE - very bare and basic - XFCE.
likewise a bit bare and basic, MATE which is very XP like and
Cinnamon which is very pretty but I find it less usable than MATE.
https://linuxmint.com/download.php LXDE seems to no longer be
offered
In article <ufbgti$1griu$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Do try Mint. It doesnt work any better once installed, but it is a
heck of a sight easier to get installed. They went to a huge
amount of trouble on the installation process, and it is built
over ubuntu which is built on debian, but the work went in to
making it very easy for windows uses to migrate to.
There are I think four flavours. LXDE - very bare and basic - XFCE.
likewise a bit bare and basic, MATE which is very XP like and
Cinnamon which is very pretty but I find it less usable than MATE.
https://linuxmint.com/download.php LXDE seems to no longer be
offered
I've tried it! I tried MATE as you suggested. It was a far simpler
process and it worked out of the box.
It doesn't ask about Languages and assumes USA english which I found
an issue setting up wifi password that contains a #. But wifi up and
running and it remembers over a reboot.
Yes, I will get around to partition shrinking but before then I tried
sharing a folder via smb. No, looked it up on line how to do it, all
the suggested menu options don't exist so I assume this is because
it's on a usb device not a proper install. Shame cos without sharing
it's about as much use as ...
But later I'll try shrinking partitions - AGAIN.
Bob.
On 01/10/2023 20:25, Bob Latham wrote:
I
tried sharing a folder via smb. No, looked it up on line how to
do it, all the suggested menu options don't exist so I assume
this is because it's on a usb device not a proper install. Shame
cos without sharing it's about as much use as ...
Oh, no that will work OK
I don't use it these days but IIRC the safe and fast way to get it
to work is to edit /etc/smb.conf
I don't think it is installed by default on Mint however. Only the
client, not the server.
You need to use the synaptic package manager to install it (samba)
Then the setup stuff will work. Samba is veryt solid these days
claims from the linux people that everything is sorted now and linux
is just like windows
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
I don't think it is installed by default on Mint however. Only the
client, not the server.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would you
believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to run to add
this.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would you
believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to run to add
this.
I can so see why despite claims from the linux people that everything
is sorted now and linux is just like windows the truth is anything
but. To do the simplest of day one things you're in the command line.
In article (Dans l'article) <5aed2feb92bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>, Bob
Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote (écrivait) :
claims from the linux people that everything is sorted now and linux
is just like windows
Let's remain confident that the situation has not become so
catastrophic, have we?...
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/10/2023 20:25, Bob Latham wrote:
I
tried sharing a folder via smb. No, looked it up on line how to
do it, all the suggested menu options don't exist so I assume
this is because it's on a usb device not a proper install. Shame
cos without sharing it's about as much use as ...
Oh, no that will work OK
I don't use it these days but IIRC the safe and fast way to get it
to work is to edit /etc/smb.conf
I don't think it is installed by default on Mint however. Only the
client, not the server.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would you
believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to run to add
this.
You need to use the synaptic package manager to install it (samba)
I can so see why despite claims from the linux people that everything
is sorted now and linux is just like windows the truth is anything
but. To do the simplest of day one things you're in the command line.
After 20 years plus still the same story.
Then the setup stuff will work. Samba is veryt solid these days
Linux is for geeks, not ordinary folk.
Bob.
On 02/10/2023 20:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/10/2023 20:25, Bob Latham wrote:
Then the setup stuff will work. Samba is veryt solid these days
Linux is for geeks, not ordinary folk.
No, its just not windows, that's all.
If you install a distro that is optimised as desktop CLIENT why
would you expect it to serve as a SERVER?
The fundamental difference is the Linux is not 'install once and
everything you never needed is now loaded on your computer, which
is now as lively as Brian the snail'
A core linux of what you *probably* want *most* is installed, and
the rest *should you require it* is only three mouse clicks and a
password away.
Its the price you pay for flexibility and efficiency.
In article <uff894$32fdh$3@dont-email.me>,
druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
On 02/10/2023 20:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
I don't think it is installed by default on Mint however. Only the
client, not the server.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would
you believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to
run to add this.
As TNT says it has the client which allows you to access shares on
Windows, it does not have the server installed by default, which
isn't needed unless you want Windows machines to access shares on
it.
Yes, I get that fair enough.
It's part of the Linux philosophy NOT to shovel in and enable every
possible network service by default, potentially exposing security
vulnerabilities.
Yes, okay. But surely for a "sorted now" OS something better than
this should be default now. Is it really that hard to add a switch
just like in windows to enable features? A switch to enable samba
server is that really a surrender? Maybe even another with
*warnings*, about enabling SMB1 for those that need it.
Does linux want to be main stream?
Installing samba sever does not need long scripts, it is one apt
install
Not yet seen that command unless it's the same as for raspi ie.
sudo apt-get install samba samba-common-bin
Bet it isn't, that would be too easy. :)
and one config file to edit.
smb.conf I assume. I am a little familiar with that.
Google better chat sites!
How do you know which ones are better than the linux mint chat group?
Not had much luck yet with google searching. I've looked at this
synaptic whatever and searched for samba and it lists dozens of files
and packages do I need one or all of them - not much in the way of
help or clues.
I can't believe it's so hard to get a "sorted" OS to share !!
Bob.
On 02/10/2023 20:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
I don't think it is installed by default on Mint however. Only the
client, not the server.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would
you believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to
run to add this.
As TNT says it has the client which allows you to access shares on
Windows, it does not have the server installed by default, which
isn't needed unless you want Windows machines to access shares on
it.
It's part of the Linux philosophy NOT to shovel in and enable every
possible network service by default, potentially exposing security vulnerabilities.
Installing samba sever does not need long scripts, it is one apt
install
and one config file to edit.
Google better chat sites!
I can't believe it's so hard to get a "sorted" OS to share !!
In article <ufgh2v$3ef71$12@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/10/2023 20:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/10/2023 20:25, Bob Latham wrote:
[Snip]
No, its just not windows, that's all.
Then the setup stuff will work. Samba is veryt solid these days
Linux is for geeks, not ordinary folk.
If you install a distro that is optimised as desktop CLIENT why
would you expect it to serve as a SERVER?
I didn't know it was optimised in such a way, how would I know that?
Did i have a choice in that decision?
The fundamental difference is the Linux is not 'install once and
everything you never needed is now loaded on your computer, which
is now as lively as Brian the snail'
Okay, I get that. Fair enough but....
A core linux of what you *probably* want *most* is installed, and
the rest *should you require it* is only three mouse clicks and a
password away.
1. Why isn't it just a switch in an add functionality box?
Just like Control Panel => Programs and Features => Turn Windows
Features On and Off. You switch something on and it installs what is
needed automagically.
2. Having failed 1 above, why is there not easy to find help to
advise which mouse clicks?
Its the price you pay for flexibility and efficiency.
Not really is it?
It's the price you pay for using an OS that doesn't give you easy to
use functionality choices. It prefers to let you fish around on
google for hours and still not find the answer.
Imagine right button clicking a folder, an option in the menu isLinux is not windows, It doesn't do windows serving by default. No one
share folder. You click it. It then links you to a text file that
explains the service needs to be installed and how to do it.
Off and on, I've spent two days on this and still don't have the
answers.
Bob.
On 03/10/2023 09:11, Bob Latham wrote:
I can't believe it's so hard to get a "sorted" OS to share !!
lol, difficult, compared to MS Windows workgroups, etc?
I think you have rose-tinted spectacles.
Nowadays, I have a magic combination of File Explorer menu commands and command line USE statements to mount and preserve remote network drive
mounts on Windows. But on balance, I find Linux SAMBA/fstab mounts easier.
On 03/10/2023 09:11, Bob Latham wrote:
Does linux want to be main stream?
It already is. More servers run Linux than anything else.
Just not in PC world or Currys.
Installing samba sever does not need long scripts, it is one apt
install
Not yet seen that command unless it's the same as for raspi ie.
sudo apt-get install samba samba-common-bin
Bet it isn't, that would be too easy. :)
Of course its that easy.
In fact, its even easier, because there is a nice windows like
application called 'synaptic' that you will find in the main menu
down the left hand column - its called 'package manager' .
Windows doesn't have it, because you have to spend money to install
things on Windows. This is free.
If you invoke that and search for 'samba' and scroll down till you
find the package called 'samba' and select it and than install
that selection.
Samba will magically be installed and due to the
amazingly clever design of Linux you wont even have to reboot the
computer
and one config file to edit.
smb.conf I assume. I am a little familiar with that.
Google better chat sites!
How do you know which ones are better than the linux mint chat
group?
Not had much luck yet with google searching. I've looked at this
synaptic whatever and searched for samba and it lists dozens of
files and packages do I need one or all of them - not much in the
way of help or clues.
just 'SAMBA' itself which is described as:
"SMB/CIFS file, print, and login *server* for Unix."
I can't believe it's so hard to get a "sorted" OS to share !!
It isn't.
It's just not dumbed down totally to the point of being unusable.
Fundamentally you have installed a pretty good version of Linux,
but you want to do something that isn't the installation default.
So you need to learn how to install a package.
That's all.
Two ways - use the command line which is quicker if you are au fait
with it, and know exactly what you want, or use synaptic to do it
the 'windows way'
On 03/10/2023 09:31, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufgh2v$3ef71$12@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/10/2023 20:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/10/2023 20:25, Bob Latham wrote:
[Snip]
2. Having failed 1 above, why is there not easy to find help to
advise which mouse clicks?
Its the price you pay for flexibility and efficiency.
Not really is it?
It's the price you pay for using an OS that doesn't give you easy to
use functionality choices. It prefers to let you fish around on
google for hours and still not find the answer.
They are easy to use and easy tro find
https://linuxgenie.net/how-to-install-and-configure-samba-on-linux-mint-21-2/
the first thing I found
Imagine right button clicking a folder, an option in the menu is
share folder. You click it. It then links you to a text file that
explains the service needs to be installed and how to do it.
Linux is not windows,
It doesn't do windows serving by default. No
one dies windows serving by default. Windows serveing is a ghastly
morass of permissions and restrictions.
Even windows post about XOP wont allow you to share without delving
into the registry from memory.
Off and on, I've spent two days on this and still don't have the
answers.
Patience grasshopper. You are doing really well. Better than my 80+
year old friends do with their i-phones.
If you think Linux is shit, you don't own an I-phone where the
merest brush against your face will terminate a call.
In article <ufgjvt$3fdl6$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/10/2023 09:11, Bob Latham wrote:
Does linux want to be main stream?It already is. More servers run Linux than anything else.
Just not in PC world or Currys.
Ordinary Joes do not work on servers. That is specialist. And before
you say it, I know a samba share is a server but a very domestic one.
Of course its that easy.Installing samba sever does not need long scripts, it is one apt
install
Not yet seen that command unless it's the same as for raspi ie.
sudo apt-get install samba samba-common-bin
Bet it isn't, that would be too easy. :)
So is it exactly the same command?
Important as other method failed see later...
In fact, its even easier, because there is a nice windows like
application called 'synaptic' that you will find in the main menu
down the left hand column - its called 'package manager' .
Okay, yes I've seen that and tried to use it.
Windows doesn't have it, because you have to spend money to install
things on Windows. This is free.
Hmmm. Well yes you have to buy windows but you can add packages from
control panel that install without extra cost.
If you invoke that and search for 'samba' and scroll down till you
find the package called 'samba' and select it and than install
that selection.
Samba will magically be installed and due to the
amazingly clever design of Linux you wont even have to reboot the
computer
just 'SAMBA' itself which is described as:and one config file to edit.
smb.conf I assume. I am a little familiar with that.
Google better chat sites!
How do you know which ones are better than the linux mint chat
group?
Not had much luck yet with google searching. I've looked at this
synaptic whatever and searched for samba and it lists dozens of
files and packages do I need one or all of them - not much in the
way of help or clues.
"SMB/CIFS file, print, and login *server* for Unix."
Right I didn't know that package was down there I'll be honest. I did
find it after your comments. Certainly anything but obvious way down
the list following a search for just SAMBA. I assumed it would be all packages listed but was very unsure and hesitant to commit to that.
I selected the package. I set it going. It advised about changes it
was going to make.
It downloaded some items and failed to download 3 others.
W:Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu//pool/main/s/samba/samba_4.15.13%2bdfsq-0ubuntu1.1_amd64.deb
404 Not Found [IP:91:189.91.80]
W:Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu//pool/main/s/samba/samba-dsdb-modules_4.15%2bdfsq-0ubuntu1.1_amd64.deb
404 Not Found [IP:91:189.91.80]
W:Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu//pool/main/s/samba/samba-vfs-modules_4.15.13%2bdfsq-0ubuntu1.1_amd64.deb
404 Not Found [IP:91:189.91.80]
"amazingly clever" :-)
I can't believe it's so hard to get a "sorted" OS to share !!It isn't.
Apparently, it is !!
It's just not dumbed down totally to the point of being unusable.
Providing switches, information and links would not have any impact
to make it "unusable".
Fundamentally you have installed a pretty good version of Linux,
but you want to do something that isn't the installation default.
I can agree that.
So you need to learn how to install a package.
Quite a task it seems.
That's all.
:-) :-)
Two ways - use the command line which is quicker if you are au fait
with it, and know exactly what you want, or use synaptic to do it
the 'windows way'
As the "windows way" failed, could you confirm the exact command
please.
Thank you.
Bob.
If you think Linux is shit, you don't own an I-phone where the
merest brush against your face will terminate a call.
I've given the wrong impression then. I don't think Linux is crap,
not at all. I think it's fine especially for things like pi, routers,
NAS boxes etc. The problem for me is one of finding information and
realising that with a linux desktop you can do very, very little
without getting into command line.
It rubs me up the wrong way when
folks talk about Linux desktop being as "sorted" as windows cos it
ain't, not by a long, long way.
Still trying to install samba....
Bob.
Still trying to install samba....
On Tue, 03 Oct 2023 11:24:18 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
Still trying to install samba....Have you looked at this page? https://wiki.samba.org
Or this one? https://www.liquidweb.com
Most major applications like Samba have their own website and its
typically the best place to look when adding a new application to your
Linux system. Took me one search using "Installing Samba" as the search
text to find those links.
I used DuckDuckGo, not the Google search engine, which I haven't touched
for years.
On 03/10/2023 11:24, Bob Latham wrote:
If you think Linux is shit, you don't own an I-phone where the
merest brush against your face will terminate a call.
I've given the wrong impression then. I don't think Linux is
crap, not at all. I think it's fine especially for things like
pi, routers, NAS boxes etc. The problem for me is one of finding information and realising that with a linux desktop you can do
very, very little without getting into command line.
That is simply not true. See Synaptic in this isntance.
And even if it were, so what?
It rubs me up the wrong way when folks talk about Linux desktop
being as "sorted" as windows cos it ain't, not by a long, long
way.
It is. You just want it to work in the same way a massively
overpriced piece of shit pre-installed on a computer by someone
else and designed to sell, but not to work, operates.
The point is that the reasons why linux works *better*, come at a
price, and that price is learning the basics of how to install new
software and update existing.
Still trying to install samba....
I don't like those 404 not found messages.
If the installation fails with more of those, we may need to look
into things more
On 03/10/2023 12:31, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 03 Oct 2023 11:24:18 +0100, Bob Latham wrote:
Still trying to install samba....Have you looked at this page? https://wiki.samba.org
Or this one? https://www.liquidweb.com
Installing samba should be trivial,
but it looks like Bob has a weird and broken repository list.
Probably synaptic needs setting to its default repository and an
update and upgrade performing, to normalise.
Bob: Did you do those as part of the installation?
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade -y
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would you
believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to run to add
this.
You need to use the synaptic package manager to install it (samba)
I can so see why despite claims from the linux people that everything
is sorted now and linux is just like windows the truth is anything
but. To do the simplest of day one things you're in the command line.
After 20 years plus still the same story.
Then the setup stuff will work. Samba is veryt solid these days
Linux is for geeks, not ordinary folk.
Surely if you are messing around with Raspberry pi's like you are
then you are a geek! Ordinary folk don't do that.
On 02/10/2023 20:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufcmk9$2gith$1@dont-email.me>,
I don't think it is installed by default on Mint however. Only the
client, not the server.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard. I then start googling how to add this essential. Would you
believe there are chat sites with long scripts you have to run to add
this.
As TNT says it has the client which allows you to access shares on
Windows, it does not have the server installed by default, which isn't
needed unless you want Windows machines to access shares on it.
It's part of the Linux philosophy NOT to shovel in and enable every
possible network service by default, potentially exposing security vulnerabilities.
Installing samba sever does not need long scripts, it is one apt install
and one config file to edit. Google better chat sites!
Indeed, I googled
linux raspberry pi installing smb server
and got ...
https://pimylifeup.com/raspberry-pi-samba/
looks like this guy handholds you through it. However as I have
already said, it one is doing this sort of stuff then you are de
facto a geek and if one isn't upto the smarts to cope then any
number of handholding tutorials aren't going to get one there.
In article <ufguj4$3hg5q$3@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Bob: Did you do those as part of the installation?
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade -y
I did but to be honest, I'm not sure when. It may have been when
following the instructions in the command line link you gave me.
permissions permisions, permissions.
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as standard.
In message <5aed2feb92bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
Bloody Linux.
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard.
Linux does /have/ working SMB as standard, but it's not /installed/
as standard.
It's easy to install - both the client and the
server.
If you want to install the client or server, just follow
instructions from a good web site.
Permissions obviously but where??.
On 03/10/2023 10:42, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufgjvt$3fdl6$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/10/2023 09:11, Bob Latham wrote:
Does linux want to be main stream?
On 03/10/2023 12:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/10/2023 10:42, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufgjvt$3fdl6$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/10/2023 09:11, Bob Latham wrote:
Does linux want to be main stream?
[A huge amount of painful deliberate cluelessness stripped]
I think Bob's trolling here is some of the best I've seen on Usenet
in 2023. Blows R. Weiser straight out of the water.
First off I didn't mean geek as an insult.
Second I don't consider myself good enough to be a geek.
On 03/10/2023 13:03, Bob Latham wrote:
Permissions obviously but where??.smb.conf
In article <cb6a3aed5a.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <5aed2feb92bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard.
Linux does /have/ working SMB as standard, but it's not /installed/
as standard.
Hmmm. If it's not installed, it's not working in my book. It does
have potential to work.
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
Hmmm. If it's not installed, it's not working in my book. It does
have potential to work.
Not everybody needs it.
Of all the Linux systems I run, I think only two of them have Samba installed.
Why should it be installed by default?
That only increases the attack surface; any unused-but-installed
software is one exploit away from getting your box pwned.
If you need it for whatever reason, you install it. If you don't,
you don't.
It's no different than any other software you might
use: webserver, email server, etc.
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <cb6a3aed5a.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <5aed2feb92bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
I installed an operating system that doesn't have working SMB as
standard.
Linux does /have/ working SMB as standard, but it's not /installed/
as standard.
Hmmm. If it's not installed, it's not working in my book. It does
have potential to work.
Not everybody needs it. Of all the Linux systems I run, I think only two of them have Samba installed. Why should it be installed by default?
Where do you draw the line?
You're not safe the moment you connect to
a network (SMB or not) especially a public network
and as for using a
browser on the net, well that's asking for trouble.
As I've said before, when people come from Windows they expect
similar functionality. If there was a control panel switch to switch
it on then absolutely fine, leave it off as windows does for SMB1.
On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 20:09:47 +0100 Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
You're not safe the moment you connect to a network (SMB or not)
especially a public network
You're perfectly safe if nothing is listening or reaching out that
you don't directly control.
and as for using a browser on the net, well that's asking for trouble.
I'd be happy if Windows came with NFS support installed by default.
:)
I could of course complain in a Windows group that it's too hard to
install NFS support so that it would work the same as my Linux
systems,
but I don't.
In article <ufkr34$i857$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 04/10/2023 20:09, Bob Latham wrote:
As I've said before, when people come from Windows they expect
similar functionality. If there was a control panel switch to
switch it on then absolutely fine, leave it off as windows does
for SMB1.
If you go to main menu->software manager->Internet there is a
'switch to switch it on'
Just had a look at that and I can't deny what you say, it is there.
Thank you for pointing it out.
Obviously, I didn't see it before and I don't recall any web site or
previous message post indicating it's existence.
efforts only finding command line install commands led me away from
that possibility. I'm *slightly* at odds with putting it under
"internet" as the last thing you want to do is combine those two
things but perhaps that's nit picking.
Out of interest, not having a pop or anything. I discovered that the
samba install I used did not provide a share option in the folder
menus, so I suppose users are intended to edit /etc/samba/smb.conf
themselves by hand.
I've since discovered and installed via command line caja-share samba
which does add the option to the menus. I've not tried it yet but I
presume it edits smb.conf for you.
For future reference, I don't suppose "the switch" in software
manager adds caja-share does it?
On 04/10/2023 20:09, Bob Latham wrote:
As I've said before, when people come from Windows they expect
similar functionality. If there was a control panel switch to
switch it on then absolutely fine, leave it off as windows does
for SMB1.
If you go to main menu->software manager->Internet there is a
'switch to switch it on'
In article <651dc724@news.ausics.net>,
Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
I'd be happy if Windows came with NFS support installed by default.
:)
So would I as it happens. A long story as to why but I do use both
SMB and NFS (at the same time) to access my music library for admin
purposes. I've not managed to get NFS working well on Windows.
I could of course complain in a Windows group that it's too hard to
install NFS support so that it would work the same as my Linux
systems,
And you'd be correct and I would support you.
but I don't.
Ouch !!
Bob.
Why don't you use ssh to connect? public key infrastructure, no
passwords.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/openssh/openssh_install_firstuse?tabs=gui
Linux tends to have it installed by default.
PS Did you ever manage to shrink your SD card?
In article <ufm204$t27t$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
Why don't you use ssh to connect? public key infrastructure, no
passwords.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/openssh/openssh_install_firstuse?tabs=gui
Correct me if I'm wrong. I use samba a lot to look at scripts, and
text files and the tags inside flac music files. These can be edited
on another platform and returned and all using a gui not command
line. I don't think you can do that with SSH can you?
Linux tends to have it installed by default.
It does yes.
PS Did you ever manage to shrink your SD card?
Yes and no. Yes, I've shrunken it a bit but not to the degree it
should be possible, ie. partitions a little larger than the file
storage and no unallocated space. And it gave me strange sizes I
didn't understand. Still looking at it and now I have a laptop
running mint.
Bob.
I've not managed to get NFS working well on Windows.
On 05/10/2023 11:20, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <ufm204$t27t$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
Why don't you use ssh to connect? public key infrastructure, no
passwords.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/openssh/openssh_install_firstuse?tabs=gui
Correct me if I'm wrong. I use samba a lot to look at scripts,
and text files and the tags inside flac music files. These can be
edited on another platform and returned and all using a gui not
command line. I don't think you can do that with SSH can you?
You can if you also install sshfs. Uses ssh as the connection
protocol. E.g. I have a line in (slackware) /etc/fstab:
celvi@10.0.2.3:/Users/celvi /media/celvi fuse.sshfs PasswordAuthentication=no,comment=sshfs,transform_symlinks,users,noexec,auto,allow_other,_netdev,delay_connect,identityfile=/home/chris/.ssh/id_rsa,uid=1000,gid=100,umask=0077
0 0
which connects to local windows box (at 10.0.2.3) I can
double-click the icon on the desktop to open the window on the
object directory. Changing a file here changes it on the host.
Why would you think that samba and ssh are different in that
respect?
It will also be the same with NFS.
All samba/sshfs/nfs do is make a remote directory appear as a local directory.
Take your SD card and plug it into the mint laptop. Use gparted
(gui version of parted = partition editor) to investigate/shrink.
Easy!
Correct me if I'm wrong. I use samba a lot to look at scripts, and
text files and the tags inside flac music files. These can be edited
on another platform and returned and all using a gui not command
line. I don't think you can do that with SSH can you?
In message <5aee79993ebob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
I've not managed to get NFS working well on Windows.
That's PC compatibility for you.
David
In article <ufm204$t27t$1@dont-email.me>,
Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote:
Why don't you use ssh to connect? public key infrastructure, no
passwords.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/openssh/openssh_install_firstuse?tabs=gui
Correct me if I'm wrong. I use samba a lot to look at scripts, and
text files and the tags inside flac music files. These can be edited
on another platform and returned and all using a gui not command
line. I don't think you can do that with SSH can you?
Linux tends to have it installed by default.
It does yes.
PS Did you ever manage to shrink your SD card?
Yes and no. Yes, I've shrunken it a bit but not to the degree it
should be possible, ie. partitions a little larger than the file
storage and no unallocated space. And it gave me strange sizes I
didn't understand. Still looking at it and now I have a laptop
running mint.
Bob.
In article <32gTM.5$w4ec.4@fx14.iad>,
<scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
Of all the Linux systems I run, I think only two of them have Samba
installed.
I have :
A Router, several Synology NAS boxes, Humax Freeview recorder, and
around 10 raspberry pi machines, all Linux and all have SMB server on
them.
One reason why is text editing for scripts etc. I have an editor that
I prefer to all others regardless of platform. This means that using
a built in editor like nano is only used once to sort smb.conf.
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <32gTM.5$w4ec.4@fx14.iad>,
<scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
Of all the Linux systems I run, I think only two of them have Samba
installed.
I have :
A Router, several Synology NAS boxes, Humax Freeview recorder, and
around 10 raspberry pi machines, all Linux and all have SMB server on
them.
One reason why is text editing for scripts etc. I have an editor that
I prefer to all others regardless of platform. This means that using
a built in editor like nano is only used once to sort smb.conf.
Sounds like using a sledgehammer to swat a fly. You'd be much better off learning to use a text editor (you could even standardize on one, such as joe) through an SSH session. It'll have a much smaller footprint on every device, takes less time to install, less time to update, etc.
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <32gTM.5$w4ec.4@fx14.iad>,
<scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
Of all the Linux systems I run, I think only two of them have Samba
installed.
I have :
A Router, several Synology NAS boxes, Humax Freeview recorder, and
around 10 raspberry pi machines, all Linux and all have SMB server on
them.
One reason why is text editing for scripts etc. I have an editor that I
prefer to all others regardless of platform. This means that using a
built in editor like nano is only used once to sort smb.conf.
Hi,
I build images for projects on 4GB cards so that I can save a
completed image without using too much disc space. My problem comes
when I try to burn a new card from the saved image. Often it will not
fit because there are small differences in the size of the cards.
Does anyone know of a way to reduce the capacity of an SD card so
that I can make a 4GB card maybe 3.5GB which would mean all cards
could easily manage it and reduce the size of the save image.
On 9/17/23 4:58 AM, Bob Latham wrote:<stuff>
On 13/12/2023 01:35, 56g.1173 wrote:
On 9/17/23 4:58 AM, Bob Latham wrote:<stuff>
FFS this is three months old!
WE solved it months ago.
| Sysop: | Xerxes |
|---|---|
| Location: | Azle, Texas |
| Users: | 119 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 160:03:51 |
| Calls: | 3,036 |
| Calls today: | 4 |
| Files: | 156 |
| U/L today: |
0 files (0K bytes) |
| D/L today: |
0 files (0K bytes) |
| Messages: | 294,095 |
| Posted today: | 0 |