• Black conservatives/Repub

    From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Friday, November 11, 2022 14:54:00
    The statement (mine) that lead to your "single-issue" comment was there are Black conservatives/Republicans who seem better
    ducated
    you or I, and I asked why you thought that was.
    So, now you are saying that they are not smart enough to see
    hrou
    such a "lie"?
    Anyone can be duped. There are very smart people that believe that "trickle-down" economics works for everyone, despite the wage (and
    eal
    gap that's been expanding since Reagan introduced "voodoo economics."
    The single-issue lie you mentioned is a pretty long-lived one. I don't think these well-educated people would stay duped that long.

    The idea of "trickle-down" economics has survived this long despite zero evidence of it helping the middle class, so *somebody* must be buying into
    t.

    Again, I don't think they are single issue people.

    I think it is more along the lines of they have realized the Democrat Party does not have as much to offer them, and may have even pivoted away from
    their values.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Friday, November 11, 2022 14:49:00
    Travel distance is not the only parameter to consider. Traffic at the site should also be considered. Only one person can use the single drop box at a time.

    All you do is drop a ballot in. Traffic there matters no more than the
    line at the polling place... even less so.

    They would not face near the congestion at that drop box that urban voters would. In rural Texas counties, the county seat is much more important than in urban Texas counties. One-stoplight towns don't tend to have their own tax offices, courthouse, etc., but rely on the county seat to fulfill that need. The towns that are the county seats often are not that big themselves and so only have one tax office, one courthouse, etc. This seems to work well for them.

    In contrast, large ubran cities often have more than one county tax office (usually a main one and some branches) and more than one courthouse, because that's what's needed to serve the community. And that seems to work well for them.

    I am certain that drop box is also not their only polling place.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Friday, November 11, 2022 14:49:00
    On 10 Nov 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    Plus Arbery wasn't a politician.
    There's no rule that politically-motivated crimes have to target
    oliti
    In this case, it was quite likely racially motivated. I don't see any political motivation, unless we are going to go to the point where all violent acts are politically motivated.

    It was racially-motivated violence intended to send a message.

    It was a bunch of dumbasses who thought a black jogger didn't belong in
    their neighborhood. You are stretching very hard to try to hook a
    political motive to it.


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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, November 11, 2022 16:21:03
    On 11 Nov 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    Again, I don't think they are single issue people.
    I think it is more along the lines of they have realized the Democrat Party does not have as much to offer them, and may have even pivoted
    away from their values.

    That would depend on which values (i.e., issues) are important to them,

    Jeff.

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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, November 11, 2022 16:29:04
    On 11 Nov 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    Travel distance is not the only parameter to consider. Traffic at the si should also be considered. Only one person can use the single drop box a time.
    All you do is drop a ballot in. Traffic there matters no more than the line at the polling place... even less so.

    And yet, there are polling places all over the county. Of course traffic matters because with only one drop box people from all over the densely-populated county are trying to get to it.

    Harris County has a population of 4.728 million as of 2021. If less than a quarter of those people -- 1,000,000 people -- each took one second to drop their ballot in the box, people would be dropping off ballots 7 days a week,
    24 hours a day, 60 minutes an hour, 60 seconds a minute for over eleven and a half days.

    They would not face near the congestion at that drop box that urban vote would. In rural Texas counties, the county seat is much more important t in urban Texas counties. One-stoplight towns don't tend to have their ow offices, courthouse, etc., but rely on the county seat to fulfill that n The towns that are the county seats often are not that big themselves an only have one tax office, one courthouse, etc. This seems to work well f them.
    I am certain that drop box is also not their only polling place.

    No, it's not, but it's supposed to be convenient. What's the harm in having more than one drop box per county? Is it that too many people might vote too easily?

    Jeff.

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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Friday, November 11, 2022 16:53:35
    On 11 Nov 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    There's no rule that politically-motivated crimes have to target
    oliti
    In this case, it was quite likely racially motivated. I don't see political motivation, unless we are going to go to the point where violent acts are politically motivated.
    It was racially-motivated violence intended to send a message.
    It was a bunch of dumbasses who thought a black jogger didn't belong in their neighborhood. You are stretching very hard to try to hook a political motive to it.

    At least one of the murderers shared white supremacist items on social media, and prominent leaders of white supremacist groups are trying to crowd-fund their appeals. White supremacy, in that it espouses changing the balance of rights between racial/ethnic groups, is inherently political.

    Jeff.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Saturday, November 12, 2022 10:36:00
    Again, I don't think they are single issue people.
    I think it is more along the lines of they have realized the Democrat Party does not have as much to offer them, and may have even pivoted away from their values.

    That would depend on which values (i.e., issues) are important to them,

    In this area of the country, Democrats who have either moved over entirely
    or that vote for Republicans on the national level usually seem concerned
    about the Democrat Party stance on abortion, their perceived lack of
    concern for persons who live in rural areas/"those red states", etc, and
    their perceived lack of respect for religion. Those are just a few of the issues I hear mentioned.

    I would imagine that those living in the nearby city might look at their
    crime rates, police brutality, etc., and realize it has not gotten any
    better (but worse) over several decades of Democrats as mayor, which might
    make them start looking elsewhere. They may also be concerned about other things listed above.

    Returning to the original subject of why some seemingly well educated
    persons in minority groups might turn Republican, I see several of those
    issues brought up. Not just one.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Saturday, November 12, 2022 10:07:00
    Harris County has a population of 4.728 million as of 2021. If less than a quarter of those people -- 1,000,000 people -- each took one second to drop their ballot in the box, people would be dropping off ballots 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, 60 minutes an hour, 60 seconds a minute for over eleven and a half days.

    All you have to do is drop the ballot in.

    They would not face near the congestion at that drop box that urban vot
    would. In rural Texas counties, the county seat is much more important in urban Texas counties. One-stoplight towns don't tend to have their o
    offices, courthouse, etc., but rely on the county seat to fulfill that The towns that are the county seats often are not that big themselves a
    only have one tax office, one courthouse, etc. This seems to work well them.
    I am certain that drop box is also not their only polling place.

    No, it's not, but it's supposed to be convenient. What's the harm in having more than one drop box per county? Is it that too many people might vote too easily?

    If it was their only means of voting, you might have a point. As it is, I
    am guessing it is one of at least three.


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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Saturday, November 12, 2022 10:29:02
    On 12 Nov 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    Again, I don't think they are single issue people.
    I think it is more along the lines of they have realized the Democr Party does not have as much to offer them, and may have even pivote away from their values.
    That would depend on which values (i.e., issues) are important to them,
    In this area of the country, Democrats who have either moved over
    entirely or that vote for Republicans on the national level usually seem concerned about the Democrat Party stance on abortion, their perceived lack of concern for persons who live in rural areas/"those red states", etc, and their perceived lack of respect for religion. Those are just a few of the issues I hear mentioned.

    By the same person?

    I would imagine that those living in the nearby city might look at their crime rates, police brutality, etc., and realize it has not gotten any better (but worse) over several decades of Democrats as mayor, which
    might make them start looking elsewhere. They may also be concerned
    about other things listed above.

    I could imagine a lot of things.

    Jeff.

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  • From Jeff Thiele@1:387/26 to Mike Powell on Saturday, November 12, 2022 10:35:25
    On 12 Nov 2022, Mike Powell said the following...
    Harris County has a population of 4.728 million as of 2021. If less than quarter of those people -- 1,000,000 people -- each took one second to d their ballot in the box, people would be dropping off ballots 7 days a w 24 hours a day, 60 minutes an hour, 60 seconds a minute for over eleven half days.
    All you have to do is drop the ballot in.

    Well, if you're in line, you have to advance forward when the person in front of you moves forward, and then drop the ballot in. A single second seems generous. But at a single second per drop nonstop, 1 million people would
    take 11.5 days to put their ballots in the box.

    They would not face near the congestion at that drop box that urb vot
    would. In rural Texas counties, the county seat is much more impo in urban Texas counties. One-stoplight towns don't tend to have t o
    offices, courthouse, etc., but rely on the county seat to fulfill The towns that are the county seats often are not that big themse a
    only have one tax office, one courthouse, etc. This seems to work them.
    I am certain that drop box is also not their only polling place.
    No, it's not, but it's supposed to be convenient. What's the harm in hav more than one drop box per county? Is it that too many people might vote easily?
    If it was their only means of voting, you might have a point. As it is,
    I am guessing it is one of at least three.

    Nevertheless, there's absolutely no legitimate reason to only have one per county irrespective of the counties' population differences.

    There's also no legitimate reason to move the opening time for Sunday early voting from 11am to 1pm, when it's well known that many Black churches have "Souls to the Polls" events at which they all go directly from church to vote.

    Jeff.

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Sunday, November 13, 2022 10:20:00
    In this area of the country, Democrats who have either moved over entirely or that vote for Republicans on the national level usually seem concerned about the Democrat Party stance on abortion, their perceived lack of concern for persons who live in rural areas/"those red states", etc, and their perceived lack of respect for religion. Those are just a few of the issues I hear mentioned.

    By the same person?

    Same multiple persons, yes.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to JEFF THIELE on Sunday, November 13, 2022 10:26:00
    If it was their only means of voting, you might have a point. As it is, I am guessing it is one of at least three.

    Nevertheless, there's absolutely no legitimate reason to only have one per county irrespective of the counties' population differences.

    The original arguement was that there should not be one per county for
    urban counties. If you are going to change the arguement and say that all counties should have more than one, that is no longer a special request for certain areas and I cannot disagree.

    There's also no legitimate reason to move the opening time for Sunday early voting from 11am to 1pm, when it's well known that many Black churches have "Souls to the Polls" events at which they all go directly from church to vote.

    Would you want members of a conservative "white" church going from a
    service where their conservative white preacher got them fired up about
    certain candidates, amendments, etc., going directly from church to vote?

    To me that is like thinking having polling hours immediately after a Trump rally is a good idea. If you want people who make their individual
    choices, I would think having any group going to the polls directly from
    what was likely (from the title) a groupthink session would be a bad idea.


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  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Gregory Deyss on Thursday, June 01, 2023 01:26:04
    On 05-31-23 09:27, Gregory Deyss <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: A window provides cle <=-

    The news of any kind rarely gives the number of a
    bill, but rather jus
    what the effect is. Texas and Georgia passed
    laws that have the effec
    of making it harder for minorities to vote. Some of the tools are reducing the days for voting, reducing the number
    of ballot boxes, and
    even things that make it harder to wait in line
    at a polling place --
    e.g. a crime to give water to those in line.

    Again show me the bills or current laws that exist.

    You can stand behind that mantra all you like, but you know your request is not possible.

    Then your statement as it relates to the difficulty of minorities to
    vote remains unproven.

    It is proven by the recurring presence in multiple legitimate news sources.

    As an example, this week the Republican legislatation in Texas passed a
    law which allows them to replace the (Democratic) election supervisor in
    Harris county. Harris county happens to be strongly Democratic in a
    mostly Republican state. The law *only* applies to Harris county.
    Google will show you multiple reporting on these facts. Here is one
    such:

    AUSTIN, Texas -- Shaking up elections in Texas' largest county, the GOP-controlled Legislature on Tuesday approved abolishing a position in
    Harris County that oversees more than 2 million voters around Houston
    months before the city chooses a new mayor.

    At the same time, Republicans advanced a separate plan that would also
    have a singular impact on Harris County, a growing Democratic
    stronghold: allowing the state to take greater control over elections
    there if it is determined there is a ôpattern of problems.ö

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-governor-bill-abolishing-position-harris-county-elections-99555761

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Dale Shipp on Saturday, June 03, 2023 12:53:08
    Then your statement as it relates to the difficulty of minorities to vote remains unproven.

    It is proven by the recurring presence in multiple legitimate news sources.
    That is the problem, as you have no issue with calling these legitimate and that there are multiple examples.

    The real truth is that there is no such thing as legitimate news source as these are corporations who have a left leaning agenda and not only this but they craft this as a production that has a intentional purpose, orchestrated and executed and are built in a way to make you sit on the edge of your seat as you digest what they are suggesting. You don't seem to understand that they have built this for your mind to make you believe their narrative as they hope that it becomes yours.

    The truth as it relates to Harris County is that
    March 8, 2022
    The elections administrator Isabel Longoria in Harris County, Texas, announced Tuesday that she had submitted her resignation, amid a mail-in ballot counting discrepancy in election night results.

    This comes just days after she said that about 10,000 mail-in ballots approximately 6,000 Democratic and 4,000 Republican had not been included in the final unofficial primary election results. On Saturday, Longoria said in a statement that the Central Count Committee, the body that oversees the tallying of ballots in Harris County, had scanned the votes but didn't transfer them to the unofficial results. Longoria added that the slip-up had occurred between 1 and 4 a.m. Wednesday, hours after the polls had closed in Texas. Overall, more than 358,000 ballots were cast in Harris County for the primary election, of which more than 327,000 were cast in person, according to unofficial totals.

    As an example, this week the Republican legislatation in Texas passed a law which allows them to replace the (Democratic) election supervisor in Harris county. Harris county happens to be strongly Democratic in a mostly Republican state. The law *only* applies to Harris county.
    Google will show you multiple reporting on these facts. Here is one
    such:

    Incorrect, she resigned in disgrace.

    Google can not trusted as they lean left.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
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    { NET 267 │ │ NY │ │800│ │1:267/150│ │21:1/127│ ║ 1 9 9 5 ║ │ by Gregory │ / 00────00'┘¿└0──0┘¿└0─0┘¿└─00───00─┘¿└─00──00─┘¿╚═00═══00═╝¿└───00──────00──┘

    ... Still waitng for that Coffee :)

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  • From Dale Shipp@1:261/1466 to Gregory Deyss on Sunday, June 04, 2023 00:20:00
    On 06-03-23 12:53, Gregory Deyss <=-
    spoke to Dale Shipp about Re: Voting <=-


    Then your statement as it relates to the difficulty of minorities to
    vote remains unproven.

    It is proven by the recurring presence in multiple legitimate news sources.

    That is the problem, as you have no issue with calling
    these legitimate and that there are multiple examples.

    The news sources I refer to report news backed up by facts.

    The real truth is that there is no such thing as legitimate news
    source as these are corporations who have a left leaning agenda and
    not only this but they craft this as a production that has
    a intentional purpose, orchestrated and executed and are
    built in a way to make you sit on the edge of your seat as
    you digest what they are suggesting. You don't seem to
    understand that they have built this for your mind to make
    you believe their narrative as they hope that it becomes
    yours.

    Your opinion, not mine.

    The truth as it relates to Harris County is that
    March 8, 2022
    The elections administrator Isabel Longoria in Harris County, Texas, announced Tuesday that she had submitted her resignation,
    amid a mail-in ballot counting discrepancy in election
    night results.

    That and the paragraph of data that I snipped are as reported word for
    word by CNN, one of several legitimate news sources I look at.

    As an example, this week the Republican legislatation in Texas passed a law which allows them to replace the (Democratic) election supervisor in Harris county. Harris county happens to be strongly Democratic in a mostly Republican state. The law *only* applies to Harris county.
    Google will show you multiple reporting on these facts. Here is one
    such:

    Is election supervisor the same thing as elections administrator? I do
    not really know, but maybe they are the same.

    Incorrect, she resigned in disgrace.

    Not incorrect -- two different things. Don't confuse them. Longoria
    resigned because of errors made. The Republican legislation passed a
    law that lets them decide to replace a election supervisor in Harris
    county. It only applies to Harris county and not to the Repulican
    countys.

    Google can not trusted as they lean left.

    Google is a search engine, full stop.

    Dale Shipp
    fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
    (1:261/1466)


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  • From Gregory Deyss@1:267/150 to Dale Shipp on Monday, June 05, 2023 07:24:00
    The real truth is that there is no such thing as legitimate news source as these are corporations who have a left leaning agenda and not only this but they craft this as a production that has
    a intentional purpose, orchestrated and executed and are
    built in a way to make you sit on the edge of your seat as
    you digest what they are suggesting. You don't seem to
    understand that they have built this for your mind to make
    you believe their narrative as they hope that it becomes
    yours.

    Your opinion, not mine.

    True it is my opinion and it is also beyond obvious it is not yours.
    That was the whole point that I was making.
    If CNN -- your trusted source says something, says anything there is no filter or process where you pause and think about what your being told.
    There should be.

    Incorrect, she resigned in disgrace.

    Not incorrect. Longoria resigned because of errors
    So how is this different or incorrect, from what I said. She resigned.
    How she did so is in the matter of opinion, but holding such an office and then leaving it I do believe my description of "disgrace" was appropriate.

    Google can not trusted as they lean left.
    Google is a search engine, full stop.
    What I'm saying is that there is liberal bias within Media especially CNN. This left leaning bias does not just exist within the media, it exists in periodicals, newspapers and it is prevalent on the Internet too.
    with search engines as they have an agenda as well.

    The CNN example can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies
    Oh and no worries there is a full write up (link) on Fox News as well, which would surprise you is not my favorite. Not since the election night of 2020. The last straw is when they fired Tucker Carlson.
    This is when I joined Millions of others as I waived goodbye to Fox News.

    .≈______ ┌────┐ ┌───┐ ┌─────────┐ ┌────────┐ ╔═════════╗ ┌───────────────┐
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    ... Still waitng for that Coffee :)

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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Sunday, November 26, 2023 11:10:00
    I am not sure how to fix that, either.

    Paper only. In person, except for absentee voting with all the restrictions around it. Voting only 1 day and all votes counted in each precinct that day.

    They were stuffing paper ballots, so how does that help? There are areas
    where they cheated long before COVID and multiple day voting.

    I agree, none of the electronic touch-screen machines, but those old
    tabulating machines we used to use (pull lever) worked here great, and were a lot faster than the touch-screens.

    Also, some folks seem to think "paper only and hand counting only" will fix
    it. There is no way they'd get them all counted "that day" that way, and
    there is no way you'd convince someone like me that someone hand-counting
    it will somehow be less biased than a machine. After all, the machine is biased because of how a *person* programmed it.

    I don't want Florida 2000 every four years. That'd be even worse than what
    we have now.

    In person is good. One vote per person is good. Each ballot only able to
    be counted once is good. The only way you can enforce those last two, especially the last one, is if a machine counts them. If a code on the
    ballot has already been scanned and successfully counted once, throw an
    error that requires someone to actually confront the person right then who's trying to stuff the ballot back in again.

    I would go as far as to say the ballot should expire after X amount of
    time. That way it cannot easily leave the polling location and come back later, and it cannot be pulled back out from under a table and rescanned
    later. Where we poll, the line is before the ballot is printed. Once it
    is printed, you are able to start voting right them so there should be very little wait. Give someone X time to fill it out and put it in the scanner, from the time it is printed and handed to them, or force them to start over.

    Part of the reason I like the idea of multiple days is that it keeps places like Leftistexcrementholeville from claiming that people don't have enough
    time to vote and trying to keep the polls open past 6pm on Election night.
    They used to complain all the time. The procedures we have now prevent
    them from doing so, so no keeping the polls open until they get the numbers they want.

    I would be very leary of some national-level requirements

    Those requirements are unconstutional on their face.

    Agreed, which means it would be difficult to get certain states (see below)
    or even certain regions of certain states (Chicago, NYC) to agree to
    anything that would prevent tampering.

    because we both know the current
    administration would have all the states allowing all sorts of stupid stuff.

    As well as Blue states.

    That is the "see below" from above. ;)

    You should be able to sort the little cards from 0-X and see if someone's missing or duplicated. You should be able to sort the ballots from 0-(Y+Z) an
    see if a ballot is missing. And, of course X should equal Y.

    Oh, but math is racist.

    That'd never fly in Oregon, for example, for that reason.

    Our paper ballots go into a locked machine. I don't know if it tabulates
    it or not at that moment, but it tells us that our ballot has been accepted.

    I would rather them not tabulate, or at least not be able to tell anyone
    what was tabulated, until after 6pm Election night. On the other hand, it could be handy if it gave the voter a receipt that told them what their
    ballot was counted as... although I see a lot of confusion and people
    claiming it was wrong when it really wasn't if it could do that.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Monday, November 27, 2023 08:12:08
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    They were stuffing paper ballots, so how does that help? There are
    areas where they cheated long before COVID and multiple day voting.

    It's harder to stuff real paper, that's been filled out, than to flip bits.

    It won't fix the problem, but it will reduce the impact of cheating. Look at the amount of cheating that needed to be done in 2020 to pull Sleepy Joe across the finish line. From a logistics point of view, if you constrain voting enough, you can't stuff enough paper ballots to get your candidate to win.

    I agree, none of the electronic touch-screen machines, but those old tabulating machines we used to use (pull lever) worked here great, and were a lot faster than the touch-screens.

    Yup. But they can also be "programmed" to cheat as well.

    Also, some folks seem to think "paper only and hand counting only" will fix it. There is no way they'd get them all counted "that day" that
    way,

    Sure there is. They don't bring all the ballots to a central place and count them. They count them at every precinct. Parallel processing at its finest. If a precinct is too large to count, they need to break it up.

    and there is no way you'd convince someone like me that someone hand-counting it will somehow be less biased than a machine. After
    all, the machine is biased because of how a *person* programmed it.

    The problem is that it's easy to produce a bunch of machines to cheat. It's much harder to produce a bunch of people who will cheat.

    In person is good. One vote per person is good. Each ballot only able
    to be counted once is good. The only way you can enforce those last
    two, especially the last one, is if a machine counts them.

    Only if the code is open source, vetted as correct, and the machines are completely disconnected from any ability to change after loaded with the software. Hm.... I just realized that we do almost all of this with electronic payment devices that stores use to read your credit card.

    I would go as far as to say the ballot should expire after X amount of time. That way it cannot easily leave the polling location and come
    back later, and it cannot be pulled back out from under a table and rescanned later.

    But this is how the machines were designed. They were designed to allow for cheating.

    Currently, I do not trust **any** current machine to tabulate ballots.

    Part of the reason I like the idea of multiple days is that it keeps places like Leftistexcrementholeville from claiming that people don't
    have enough time to vote and trying to keep the polls open past 6pm on Election night. They used to complain all the time.

    Does anyone listen to those ignorants? They are the same ones who keep pushing the false Narrative that "Blacks can't get IDs to vote."

    Polls are open long enough for nearly everyone to be able to vote in person. For the outliars, we have mail in voting.

    Our paper ballots go into a locked machine. I don't know if it
    tabulates it or not at that moment, but it tells us that our ballot has been accepted.

    In my area, it's a locked box. About the only thing it does it verify that the ballot is not spoiled (i.e. you voted for 2 candidates when you were only allowed to vote for 1).

    I would rather them not tabulate, or at least not be able to tell
    anyone what was tabulated, until after 6pm Election night. On the
    other hand, it could be handy if it gave the voter a receipt that told them what their ballot was counted as... although I see a lot of
    confusion and people claiming it was wrong when it really wasn't if it could do that.

    I thought about that. Sort of like getting a paper receipt at the store. But instead of giving it to the voter, it goes in to a separate locked box to be used only if they needed to audit the vote.

    But now we are back to all the problem surrounding paper ballots.

    There's no perfect solution to this. About all we can do is make voter fraud not worth the effort.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Monday, November 27, 2023 11:14:00
    and there is no way you'd convince someone like me that someone hand-counting it will somehow be less biased than a machine. After
    all, the machine is biased because of how a *person* programmed it.

    The problem is that it's easy to produce a bunch of machines to cheat. It's much harder to produce a bunch of people who will cheat.

    I don't think so. For local elections, yes, but you honestly don't think
    they could find plenty of Never-Trumpers in electoral-vote rich states?

    Just here locally I think they could find enough Never-Republicans in Leftyexcrementholeville to fix state-level election results here, especially
    if their dead start voting again. There, it might be harder to find
    someone who could program the machine to do it for them as most of those
    types there are probably not smart enough.

    In person is good. One vote per person is good. Each ballot only able to be counted once is good. The only way you can enforce those last two, especially the last one, is if a machine counts them.

    Only if the code is open source, vetted as correct, and the machines are completely disconnected from any ability to change after loaded with the software. Hm.... I just realized that we do almost all of this with electronic payment devices that stores use to read your credit card.

    Yep. Now you see some of what I am thinking.

    I would go as far as to say the ballot should expire after X amount of time. That way it cannot easily leave the polling location and come back later, and it cannot be pulled back out from under a table and rescanned later.

    But this is how the machines were designed. They were designed to allow for cheating.

    Currently, I do not trust **any** current machine to tabulate ballots.

    I don't know that they were designed to allow for it specifically, but if I
    can program the machine to tabulate a choice of X as a vote for Y, on
    purpose or by accident, it is not designed to NOT allow it, which it should be.

    You can honestly mis-map a screen, but I would expect then that all choices
    of Y would also turn into votes for X. I have never heard of that
    happening. Have you?

    Part of the reason I like the idea of multiple days is that it keeps places like Leftistexcrementholeville from claiming that people don't have enough time to vote and trying to keep the polls open past 6pm on Election night. They used to complain all the time.

    Does anyone listen to those ignorants? They are the same ones who keep pushin
    the false Narrative that "Blacks can't get IDs to vote."

    Yes. Some major cities nationally, pre COVID, had extended hours beyond
    the rest of their state (which makes it special treatment). I don't know
    if Leftyexcrementholeville was ever successful in convincing Kentucky to
    allow them to do so, though.

    Polls are open long enough for nearly everyone to be able to vote in person. For the outliars, we have mail in voting.

    I like mail-in even less than multilple day in-person. Although illegal, I could have received and mailed-in three ballots during the 2020 primary as,
    at the time, there were somehow two extra people registered at this address (one dead, one long moved out of state) who were offered a chance to
    receive a ballot.

    I could not have voted three times in person, even with multiple days to do
    it, because I only have one ID and ID is required here.

    Expiring ballots, proper identification, and "one person, one vote" verifications would fix most issues.

    Our paper ballots go into a locked machine. I don't know if it tabulates it or not at that moment, but it tells us that our ballot has been accepted.

    In my area, it's a locked box. About the only thing it does it verify that th
    ballot is not spoiled (i.e. you voted for 2 candidates when you were only allowed to vote for 1).

    That is probably all it does here also. I have never spoiled one and have never asked so I am not certain.

    There's no perfect solution to this. About all we can do is make voter fraud not worth the effort.

    Yes indeed.


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  • From Ron L.@1:120/616 to Mike Powell on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 08:09:32
    Mike Powell wrote to Dr. What <=-

    I don't think so. For local elections, yes, but you honestly don't
    think they could find plenty of Never-Trumpers in electoral-vote rich states?

    Like I said, it's not 100%. It's simply harder.

    Case in point: in the last election in Detroit, the Elitists committed crimes to push Republican Observers away from the process so that they couldn't see the cheating.

    So even in an Elitist run precinct, there are good people who can, and will, blow the whistle.

    Sadly, our AG is an Elitist and refused to do anything about it even though there is piles of evidence.

    I don't know that they were designed to allow for it specifically,

    Yes. That was the basis of the lawsuits against the MyPillow guy. The manufacturers of the machines didn't like him saying the truth, so they sued him. And now that the research is done, we have proof that the machines were designed to facilitate cheating.

    Of course that's not a surprise. Venesuela uses the same machines.

    You can honestly mis-map a screen, but I would expect then that all choices of Y would also turn into votes for X. I have never heard of
    that happening. Have you?

    No. The cheating was more subtle. If every X vote was Y and Y vote was X that would be really, really obvious. They need to make the election process seem like we have a choice.

    What the machines did was flip some votes. Ex: If Biden was winning in that area, the machine did nothing. But if Biden was losing, the machine would flip **some** votes to keep Biden in the lead.

    BTW: This is why they closed the tabulation process early (or made up "emergencies" to close down for the night). The algorithm in the machines couldn't keep Biden in the lead.

    An analysis of the votes in some places here in Michigan showed that this was the case.

    I like mail-in even less than multilple day in-person.

    When I say "mail in voting", I'm talking about the process that's been in place for a long time. I show up at the city office and explain my need (i.e. I will be out of state that day), then show my ID, and I am given a ballot that I can fill out and mail in.

    Yes, there are problems with that process. Like I said, nothing's 100%. But 1. There is a record that I have a mail in vote.
    2. If I attempt to vote on election day, that will be flagged, since they know I asked for a mail in vote.

    Again, much harder to cheat. And if you have an Elitist run state (like Michigan), the Sec of State will ignore the law and set her own election rules, and the AG will not prosecute the people who broke the laws.


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  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to RON L. on Tuesday, November 28, 2023 09:32:00
    I like mail-in even less than multilple day in-person.

    When I say "mail in voting", I'm talking about the process that's been in plac
    for a long time. I show up at the city office and explain my need (i.e. I wil
    be out of state that day), then show my ID, and I am given a ballot that I can
    fill out and mail in.

    Yes, the absentee process. Gotcha.

    Again, much harder to cheat. And if you have an Elitist run state (like Michigan), the Sec of State will ignore the law and set her own election rules
    and the AG will not prosecute the people who broke the laws.

    Our SOS race was the only one I really cared much about this time around,
    and we retained ours. He is very good at what he does.


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