And in the morning they accepted that. The talking heads on TV were just following the numbers in real-time.

No they did not, or we'd never heard the phrase "not my President!"

We then had four years of "not my President" BS to listen to, and some of
the ones I knew honestly thought that Trump didn't win. Others came up with some less far-out, but still far-out, reasons why Hillary didn't win.

I don't know anyone who thought that Trump didn't win. Hillary lost, and of course there are reasons she lost. One of them might even have been the announcement of an FBI investigation right before the election.

I do. I know some who spent those next four years arguing about it on
social media and, I would assume, in person. I don't know about that last bit because after seeing their daily meltdowns on social media, I made sure to avoid them whenever possible.

Four years later, folks from the same side as those disillusioned Democrats cannot understand why Gregory claims that Biden is not his President. I am certain that they didn't give their fellow Democrats the same level of grief.

It's different because to the Democrats, at least the ones I know, "not my president" means "Yes, he's president, but I didn't vote for him and wash my hands of anything he does," whereas to people like Gregory, "not my president" means "He was fraudulently elected and is an illegitimate president." The difference is subtle, but see if you can spot it.

I don't doubt that is why Gregory thinks so. As predicted, you are giving
your fellow Democrats a lot more leeway than you do Gregory.


* SLMR 2.1a * Sir! Jem'ha'dar warship approachin-- ^{+Kx NO CARRIER
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You seem to be confusing cause and effect again. The election-night punditry did not affect the vote count; the vote count affected the election-night punditry.

I would 100% agree if the punditry did not start before the polls were
closed across the country. For years now, they barely wait for 6PM ET
before they start. The "new channel" era has done nothing but make this
worse.

Wow, that's quite a statement. There are a lot of examples to counter it, but I'll go with Jimmy Carter, who donates time and money to Habitat for Humanity and expects nothing in return.

That is a good example. I would point out, though, that Jimmy is one individual. I cannot see political groups, or groups of politicians, doing
so when it comes to policy, just as you probably have difficulty believing
that corporate groups would do so.


* SLMR 2.1a * Your E-mail has been returned due to insufficient voltage
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On 04 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

And in the morning they accepted that. The talking heads on TV were just following the numbers in real-time.

No they did not, or we'd never heard the phrase "not my President!"

I already explained the nuance involved in that phrase.

We then had four years of "not my President" BS to listen to, and s of
the ones I knew honestly thought that Trump didn't win. Others cam with some less far-out, but still far-out, reasons why Hillary didn win.

I don't know anyone who thought that Trump didn't win. Hillary lost, and course there are reasons she lost. One of them might even have been the announcement of an FBI investigation right before the election.

I do. I know some who spent those next four years arguing about it on social media and, I would assume, in person. I don't know about that
last bit because after seeing their daily meltdowns on social media, I made sure to avoid them whenever possible.

Interesting. Anecdotal evidence, but I'll take your word for it.

Four years later, folks from the same side as those disillusioned Democrats cannot understand why Gregory claims that Biden is not hi President. I am certain that they didn't give their fellow Democra the same level of grief.

It's different because to the Democrats, at least the ones I know, "not president" means "Yes, he's president, but I didn't vote for him and was hands of anything he does," whereas to people like Gregory, "not my president" means "He was fraudulently elected and is an illegitimate president." The difference is subtle, but see if you can spot it.

I don't doubt that is why Gregory thinks so. As predicted, you are
giving your fellow Democrats a lot more leeway than you do Gregory.

Hillary won the popular election but lost in the electoral college. She then conceded. There was never any widespread belief that she was actually the winner.

Trump lost the popular election and in the electoral college. He did not conceded. There was widespread belief on the right that he was actually the winner, to the point of attacking the Capitol. Although diminished, that belief continues to this day.

The two events are hardly the same.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 04 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

You seem to be confusing cause and effect again. The election-night pund did not affect the vote count; the vote count affected the election-nigh punditry.

I would 100% agree if the punditry did not start before the polls were closed across the country. For years now, they barely wait for 6PM ET before they start. The "new channel" era has done nothing but make this worse.

The vast majority of people would have voted before 6pm on election night,
and those in line would probably not be watching TV anyway.

Wow, that's quite a statement. There are a lot of examples to counter it I'll go with Jimmy Carter, who donates time and money to Habitat for Hum and expects nothing in return.

That is a good example. I would point out, though, that Jimmy is one individual. I cannot see political groups, or groups of politicians, doing so when it comes to policy, just as you probably have difficulty believing that corporate groups would do so.

The various aspects of the social safety net are an example of legislation
that helps the underprivileged while expecting nothing in return.

I have seen corporations promoting charity.

Jeff.

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The two events are hardly the same.

As I predicted, more leeway. They were the same.


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I would 100% agree if the punditry did not start before the polls were closed across the country. For years now, they barely wait for 6PM ET before they start. The "new channel" era has done nothing but make this worse.

The vast majority of people would have voted before 6pm on election night, and those in line would probably not be watching TV anyway.

6pm in my state is 3pm on the West Coast, where there are still a lot of electoral votes at stake and at least 3 hours left to get in line to vote.

That is a good example. I would point out, though, that Jimmy is one individual. I cannot see political groups, or groups of politicians, doing so when it comes to policy, just as you probably have difficulty believing that corporate groups would do so.

The various aspects of the social safety net are an example of legislation that helps the underprivileged while expecting nothing in return.

I have seen corporations promoting charity.

In both cases, those politicians and corporations do indeed expect things
in return. Certainly you are not that naive.


* SLMR 2.1a * ...gnorw og... gnorw og... gnorw og nac gnihton
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On 05 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

The two events are hardly the same.

As I predicted, more leeway. They were the same.

Hardly.

Jeff.

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On 05 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

I would 100% agree if the punditry did not start before the polls w closed across the country. For years now, they barely wait for 6PM before they start. The "new channel" era has done nothing but make worse.

The vast majority of people would have voted before 6pm on election nigh and those in line would probably not be watching TV anyway.

6pm in my state is 3pm on the West Coast, where there are still a lot of electoral votes at stake and at least 3 hours left to get in line to
vote.

In my state, the majority of votes were turned in well before election day, People voting on election day faced > 3hr. wait times.

That is a good example. I would point out, though, that Jimmy is o individual. I cannot see political groups, or groups of politician doing so when it comes to policy, just as you probably have difficu believing that corporate groups would do so.

The various aspects of the social safety net are an example of legislati that helps the underprivileged while expecting nothing in return.
I have seen corporations promoting charity.

In both cases, those politicians and corporations do indeed expect things in return. Certainly you are not that naive.

I don't think so.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 05 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

The two events are hardly the same.

As I predicted, more leeway. They were the same.

Hardly.

The only difference is that Democrats were in denial during one event, and Republicans are in denial in the other. I say they were/are both in
denial. You only want to call one out. No surprise.


* SLMR 2.1a * Whips & chains? Sorry, that's a hardware problem!
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I would 100% agree if the punditry did not start before the polls closed across the country. For years now, they barely wait for 6P
before they start. The "new channel" era has done nothing but mak
worse.

The vast majority of people would have voted before 6pm on election nig
and those in line would probably not be watching TV anyway.

6pm in my state is 3pm on the West Coast, where there are still a lot of electoral votes at stake and at least 3 hours left to get in line to vote.

In my state, the majority of votes were turned in well before election day, People voting on election day faced > 3hr. wait times.

2020 was abnormal, but my claim is they've been doing it "for years now,"
not just 2020 and since. Most years before 2020, people were not off work early enough to be in line at 3pm, and most areas outside of the Pacific NW
had in-person voting.

In both cases, those politicians and corporations do indeed expect things
in return. Certainly you are not that naive.

I don't think so.

Politicians expect things in return. If we were talking "Republican politicians" only, this discussion would not be so pointless because the
one of us that won't admit the obvious here would.


* SLMR 2.1a * No viruses detected. Must be a pair of Nanites.
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On 06 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

On 05 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

The two events are hardly the same.

As I predicted, more leeway. They were the same.

Hardly.

The only difference is that Democrats were in denial during one event,
and Republicans are in denial in the other. I say they were/are both in denial. You only want to call one out. No surprise.

Clinton conceded and Democrats were not in denial about the results of the election. Those are two very big differences. Clinton was not holding rallies two years after the election claiming that it was stolen from her, and
members of Congress were not publicly floating the idea that she had actually won. The scale of the reactions to the two events was very, very different.

Jeff.

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On 06 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

In my state, the majority of votes were turned in well before election d People voting on election day faced > 3hr. wait times.

2020 was abnormal, but my claim is they've been doing it "for years now," not just 2020 and since. Most years before 2020, people were not off
work early enough to be in line at 3pm, and most areas outside of the Pacific NW had in-person voting.

We've had early voting for several elections now.

In both cases, those politicians and corporations do indeed expect things
in return. Certainly you are not that naive.

I don't think so.

Politicians expect things in return. If we were talking "Republican politicians" only, this discussion would not be so pointless because the one of us that won't admit the obvious here would.

Some do, some don't. Republicans Cheney and Kinzinger did the right thing
and put country over party knowing that it would end their political careers.

Jeff.

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On 06 Sep 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

Clinton conceded and Democrats were not in denial about the results of
the election. Those are two very big differences. Clinton was not
holding rallies two years after the election claiming that it was stolen from her, and members of Congress were not publicly floating the idea
that she had actually won. The scale of the reactions to the two events was very, very different.

Yes she was... She was doing press interviews and writing books.... "What Happened!" "What Really Happened!" "What Really Really Happened" ... and so on.
If the Republicans take the house we can at least have a real examination of January 6th... testimony with cross examination... Maybe they can release the 14000 hours of video and release Nancy's emails as to why she didn't accept the National Guard to protect the House

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... Help! I can't find the "ANY" key.

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On 07 Sep 2022, IB Joe said the following...

Clinton conceded and Democrats were not in denial about the results o the election. Those are two very big differences. Clinton was not holding rallies two years after the election claiming that it was sto from her, and members of Congress were not publicly floating the idea that she had actually won. The scale of the reactions to the two even was very, very different.

Yes she was... She was doing press interviews and writing books.... "What Happened!" "What Really Happened!" "What Really Really Happened" ... and so on. If the Republicans take the house we can at least have a real examination of January 6th... testimony with cross examination... Maybe they can release the 14000 hours of video and release Nancy's emails as
to why she didn't accept the National Guard to protect the House

Simply asking "What happened?" indicates an intention to move on beyond
denial. It's a post-mortem-type analysis of the campaign, in a "where did
*we* go wrong" sense, a "why did we lose?" sense. It's introspective.

Did Trump ever seriously ask "What happened?" No, he went straight to
baseless conspiracy theories blaming his loss on others. Every conspiracy theory he espoused involved him actually winning the election but being thwarted by ne'er-do-wells from the opposing party. He never stopped to ask what, if anything, he and his campaign might have done wrong to lose the election. It's just blame, blame, blame someone else. That's denial.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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If the Republicans take the house we can at least have a real examination of January 6th...

Republicans didn't want an investigation of January 6th.. for obvious reasons.

Many republicans have testified before the Jan 6 committee so you can have a real examination of the events of Jan 6 if that's what you want.

Maybe they can release the 14000 hours of video and release Nancy's emails as to why she didn't accept the National Guard to protect the House

It is not, and was not Nancy Pelosi's job to protect the capitol on January 6th but you know that, right?

Donald Trump did nothing on January 6th thinking that the insurrection along with a set of fake electors would somehow overturn the election results.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
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Yes she was... She was doing press interviews and writing books.... "What Happ
ed!" "What Really Happened!" "What Really Really Happened" ... and so on.
If the Republicans take the house we can at least have a real examination of J
uary 6th... testimony with cross examination... Maybe they can release the 140
hours of video and release Nancy's emails as to why she didn't accept the Nat
nal Guard to protect the House

She has been interviewed on CBS this week and is still somewhat in denial.
She admits she lost, but also still claims it was someone else's fault.


* SLMR 2.1a * Psychoceramics: The study of crackpots.
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Simply asking "What happened?" indicates an intention to move on beyond denial. It's a post-mortem-type analysis of the campaign, in a "where did *we* go wrong" sense, a "why did we lose?" sense. It's introspective.

Except that she is still blaming others, as evidenced in her CBS interview
just this week, which is not at all introspective and does not show any intention to move on beyond denying that maybe no one is to blame but
herself.

It is always male voters or MAGA or deplorables or anyone else but herself
or her campaign. It is never "we spent too much time preaching to the
faithful while calling others names, and while Trump hit the up-for-grabs
areas we should have also been hitting."

Ironically, some of those things are the things that Trump still won't acknowledge about the 2020 election... that they also spent too much time preaching to their faithful while not spending enough time on the
Independents and Democrats that voted for them in 2016.


* SLMR 2.1a * How do you know if you run out of invisible ink?
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On 07 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Simply asking "What happened?" indicates an intention to move on beyond denial. It's a post-mortem-type analysis of the campaign, in a "where di *we* go wrong" sense, a "why did we lose?" sense. It's introspective.

Except that she is still blaming others, as evidenced in her CBS
interview just this week, which is not at all introspective and does not show any intention to move on beyond denying that maybe no one is to
blame but herself.

Perhaps others are to share in the blame. Comey did announce a new investigation very close to the election and, whether or not Trump colluded, Russia did interfere in the election.

You seem open to the idea that the Mar-a-Lago raid was a political move aimed at the midterms; why do you reject Clinton's claim that the announcement of
an investigation hurt her chances?

It is always male voters or MAGA or deplorables or anyone else but
herself or her campaign. It is never "we spent too much time preaching
to the faithful while calling others names, and while Trump hit the up-for-grabs areas we should have also been hitting."

It's mainly Comey and Russia.

Ironically, some of those things are the things that Trump still won't acknowledge about the 2020 election... that they also spent too much time preaching to their faithful while not spending enough time on the Independents and Democrats that voted for them in 2016.

Well, those things and THE FACT THAT HE LOST.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: Cold War Computing BBS (1:387/26)

On 07 Sep 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

Did Trump ever seriously ask "What happened?" No, he went straight to baseless conspiracy theories blaming his loss on others. Every conspiracy theory he espoused involved him actually winning the election but being thwarted by ne'er-do-wells from the opposing party. He never stopped to ask what, if anything, he and his campaign might have done wrong to lose the election. It's just blame, blame, blame someone else. That's denial.

Ample evidence the last election was stolen... People pulling suitcases out from under tables... Mark with his Zucker-Bucks... and the same said person telling everyone that they worked in conjunction with the FBI to suppress Hunter's Laptop...

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

... I am NOT a tagline THIEF. I am a tagline CONSERVATIONIST.

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Ample evidence the last election was stolen...

I have lost count of the number of cases Trump and his team brought but none of them were successful.. none of them, because there is simply NO evidence to back up the false claims.

People pulling suitcases out from under tables...

What does that mean?

Mark with his Zucker-Bucks... and the same said person telling everyone that they worked in conjunction with the FBI to suppress Hunter's Laptop...

I don't know that anyone actually had hunters laptop but even if they did, what does that have to do with anything and what does any of that prove, about what?

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
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On 08 Sep 2022, IB Joe said the following...

Did Trump ever seriously ask "What happened?" No, he went straight to baseless conspiracy theories blaming his loss on others. Every conspi theory he espoused involved him actually winning the election but bei thwarted by ne'er-do-wells from the opposing party. He never stopped ask what, if anything, he and his campaign might have done wrong to l the election. It's just blame, blame, blame someone else. That's deni

Ample evidence the last election was stolen... People pulling suitcases out from under tables... Mark with his Zucker-Bucks... and the same said person telling everyone that they worked in conjunction with the FBI to suppress Hunter's Laptop...

All of that "evidence" has been debunked. Check any of a number of fact-checking sites for details.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Ironically, some of those things are the things that Trump still won't acknowledge about the 2020 election... that they also spent too much time
preaching to their faithful while not spending enough time on the Independents and Democrats that voted for them in 2016.

Well, those things and THE FACT THAT HE LOST.

Correct, and I listed the reasons he lost right above there. Are you
confused?


* SLMR 2.1a * Behind every good computer - is a jumble of wire.
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If the Republicans take the house we can at least have a real examination of
January 6th...

Republicans didn't want an investigation of January 6th.. for obvious reasons.

There were Republicans that wanted to be a part of the committee but were not allowed to.

Donald Trump did nothing on January 6th thinking that the insurrection along w
h a set of fake electors would somehow overturn the election results.

Trump suggested beforehand that the National Guard be deployed. He cannot do that himself. Those who could decided it was not necessary.


* SLMR 2.1a * Boss spelled backwards is "double SOB".
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under tables... Mark with his Zucker-Bucks... and the same said person tellin

What are Zucker-Bucks? That is a new one on me.


* SLMR 2.1a * Artificial intelligence is better than none.
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On 08 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Ironically, some of those things are the things that Trump still wo acknowledge about the 2020 election... that they also spent too muc time
preaching to their faithful while not spending enough time on the Independents and Democrats that voted for them in 2016.

Well, those things and THE FACT THAT HE LOST.

Correct, and I listed the reasons he lost right above there. Are you confused?

Nope. I'm glad that you agree that Trump lost, but Trump himself does not believe that, nor do a certain csubset of his supporters.

Trump does not believe that those are reasons that he lost, because he does
not believe that he lost.

Jeff.

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Hello Mike,

Republicans didn't want an investigation of January 6th.. for obvious

reasons.

There were Republicans that wanted to be a part of the committee but were not
allowed to.

Bullshit.

[..]

Trump suggested beforehand that the National Guard be deployed.

Bullshit.

He cannot do that himself.

The POTUS is Commander-in-Chief, dumbfuck.

Those who could decided it was not necessary.

Bullshit.

For Life,
Lee

--
Lock him up!

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

If the Republicans take the house we can at least have a real examination >> > of January 6th...

Republicans didn't want an investigation of January 6th.. for obvious
reasons.

There were Republicans that wanted to be a part of the committee but were not allowed to.

Republicans didn't want an investigation of the events of Jan 6th or there would have been an investigation, so the Jan 6 committee was born.

Jim Jordan is a witness to the investigation and that is why he and some other republicans could not be on the committee.

Donald Trump did nothing on January 6th thinking that the insurrection along >> with a set of fake electors would somehow overturn the election results.

Trump suggested beforehand that the National Guard be deployed. He cannot do that himself. Those who could decided it was not necessary.

Donald trump sat in the white house watching the events of the day unfold.

When he finally did come out and address his supporters he told them something along the lines of "your very special people, and we love you".

He was enraged that the electoral count continued after the insurrection was put down.

There is no good defence of Trumps actions (or lack of actions) on that day.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 09-08-22 08:15, Ib Joe <=-
spoke to Jeff Thiele about Re: Not my President! <=-

Ample evidence the last election was stolen...

Where is it? The Trump camp kept making that statement, but failed to
provide any evidence in 60+ court filings.

People pulling suitcases out from under tables...

What do you think was in those "suitcases"? Review says that what had
been claimed to be suitcases of fraudulent ballots was in fact simply
cartons of legitimate ballots yet to be counted.

Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
(1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked in Silver Spring, Maryland. 01:29:09, 09 Sep 2022
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- Maximus/NT 3.01
* Origin: Owl's Anchor (1:261/1466)

Mike Powell wrote to JEFF THIELE <=-

Correct, and I listed the reasons he lost right above there. Are you confused?

Well, it *is* Jeff. And he is an Ignorant Elitist who embraces postmodernism.

Postmodernism is all about being subjective (i.e. there is no objective truth), so it's easy for these people to be confused.


... Do you always hit the nail right on the thumb?
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A47 2021/12/25 (Windows/32)
* Origin: cold fusion - cfbbs.net - grand rapids, mi (1:120/616)

On 08 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Ironically, some of those things are the things that Trump still w
acknowledge about the 2020 election... that they also spent too mu
time
preaching to their faithful while not spending enough time on the Independents and Democrats that voted for them in 2016.

Well, those things and THE FACT THAT HE LOST.

Correct, and I listed the reasons he lost right above there. Are you confused?

Nope. I'm glad that you agree that Trump lost, but Trump himself does not believe that, nor do a certain csubset of his supporters.

Trump does not believe that those are reasons that he lost, because he does not believe that he lost.

Clinton, whether she believes she lost or not, also does not believe that
those are the reasons she lost... still.


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On 09 Sep 2022, Mike Powell said the following...

Clinton, whether she believes she lost or not, also does not believe that those are the reasons she lost... still.

And yet, she accepted her loss. Big difference.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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Clinton conceded and Democrats were not in denial about the results of the election. Those are two very big differences. Clinton was not holding rall

Bill Clinton was awesome from the television perspective.
Bush Jr was the guy i wanted to have a beer with. Actually it would be fun to have 20 beers.
Obama was entertaing.

During those times the writers at the Onion had a much easier job.
Trump. The Onion still pulled trough.
And biden and Kamalaah are amazing.....
i hope Biden does run again in 2024 cuz i"m not a AGEIGST>


And I'm with Biden too. I'd loe to see ddtrump and ron run together. 9in fact
I have a campaign sign i woudl love to sell them . DONNIE AND RONNID

Sicne I'm not coherent, I shoudl avoid this . I"m only interested in clokin them dollarz . & I shoudl read or view tome "real " news yet I'm not on theOnion's pay roll. i can't even name my state governor yet i memorize my state treasurer's name with no problem.






*flashes his hypcorite party membership card*
I need a pro bono lawyer who will sue whoever gets the credit for being called a hypocrite without having a card which *shows* it.
ass

hit a bong . and not each other.

... I may work slow, but I do poor work

--- Renegade v1.30/DOS
* Origin: AlcoholidayBBS.com / Est. 1995 / Columbia, SC (1:123/525.1)