On 18 Aug 2024, Mike Powell said the following...

I agree it should be rare and early. Many/most states where abortion is no longer legal had restrictions on when an abortion could happen.

"Day of delivery" is questionable. Once they are in labor, they are in labor and the baby is going to be delivered. No states allow
infanticide.

Abortion is legal in all 50 states. What is different now is there are states that won't do it after so many weeks ...a few are even looking at heart beat rule. If you really want to kill your baby you have options

There was a time California was offering taxpayer funded flights for anyone who wanted an abortion... Sometimes the distance between states is a short drive... Maybe you live in Indiana and you had to drive to Illinois because of law variations... You still get the abortion...

Women have all kinds of support. Women can have sex with as many partners as they want. Shaming women for open sexuality is a thing of the past... for the most part.

They have access to all kinds of contraception, all kinds.

If they want an abortion they have access... No matter where you are you can get one.... Some states you'll have to act early where as some you get get them up to 15 months, no questions.

If you go ahead with the baby. The baby daddy will be on the hook to pay for the next 25 years...

Women now have no fault divorce... Some poor bastard falls in love with the wrong women and she takes the kids and house and he looses everything and has to work like a bastard to keep everything a float... sleeping on a mattress on the floor while she's banging a new friend in the house he still paying for.

And all I think... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... If you want an abortion do it in the first trimester... if you need on after that point there needs to be a reason.

Abortion is back in the news today...

Headline...

Planned Parenthood Reaches a New Low: Bus Traveling to DNC Will Offer Free Abortions and Vasectomies at DNC in Chicago

Yes that's right... They are offering free abortions and vasectomies at the DNC.

They were not talking about viable births. The discussion at that point would be do we let the non-viable born baby die naturally, or extend its life with pallative care until the parents are ready to pull the plug.

Just like with any other dying person.

Problem is I heard it myself. A Dr should through everything he knows into saving lives. I understand old people may have "Do Not Resuscitate" orders on their records... I understand that.

You don't take a new born baby make it comfortable while you talk to mom about killing it.

I agree. It is no longer a national matter but a matter in each state. That said, I can see which party it is that tries to push their morals so hard on everyone else that they've not only made abortion completely illegal, they got in a hurry, screwed up, and made things like IVF and
"if the mother's health is at risk" also illegal (HINT: They were not Democrats).

I an also see which party, in my state, was running a candidate who
wanted to track the movements of women of child bearing age to make sure they didn't travel to states where abortion is still legal (HINT: he
was not a Democrat and he lost).

If something is against your religion and morals, don't do it.

If something is against your religion and morals, and you don't want anyone to do it, then you had better be willing to adopt a lot of kids
or have your tax money going to support them. You cannot have both.
For those who think they can have both, then it is not about their religion, morals, or "the children" but their own meanness.

The US is the only country that guarantees individual rights... I know of no other that has the setup like the US has.

I understand fully that there is a women who is the "Host" of the pregnancy and there are somethings to consider. But at some point someone has to ask themselves where does life begin... and when asking that question one should ask when does that life get afforded their constitutional rights.

These are honest questions.

I recall a few years back that some state wanted to charge someone for double homicide because they killed a pregnant woman. The left fought this tooth and nail because they didn't want the president of calling an unborn fetus a "person" in the criminal courts because in doing so might backfire on the abortion industry.

There is a statistic that is always misquoted... ~ 70% of Americans support abortions... That number is true when you have them early... Once you go stupid and try to have them latter... like at or on the day of birth that number drops dramatically... Maybe only Hillary Clinton and a few of her aides.

I wished it was like years ago... Safe, rare and legal... BTW, I heard an old video of Hillary saying that as they were talking about the abortion truck going to the DNC.

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Abortion is legal in all 50 states. What is different now is there are states >that won't do it after so many weeks ...a few are even looking at heart beat >rule. If you really want to kill your baby you have options

No it is not. Just looking at my state, states that surround it, and a
couple of others I am aware of because they've been in the news:

*Illegal* in Kentucky, since August, 2022 unless there is a
proven risk of possible death or permanent injury to the mother. There is
no rape or incest exception.

*Illegal* in Missouri except in cases of medical emergency. No rape
or incest exceptions.

*Illegal* in Alabama since June, 2022, unless there is a serious
health risk to the mother. There is no rape or incest exception. IVF is
also on shaky ground there as frozen embryoes are considered living children.

*Illegal* in West Virginia except in cases of rape, incest, fatal
fetal abnormalities, or when the mother's life is at risk.

*Illegal* in Tennessee, "from the moment of fertilization," unless the
mother's life is at risk or if the mother has a "serious risk of substantial, irreversable impairment of a major bodily function." No apparent excetions
for rape or incest.

*Illegal* in Indiana unless fatal fetal abnormalitis are detected; if
the life or physical health of the mother are at risk; or within the first
10 weeks in the case of rape or incest.

*Legal* in Ohio up until the point of "fetal viability," and this is
a part of their state constitution.

*Legal* in Virginia until the end of the second trimester.

*Legal* In Illinois, and I could not find any mention of restriction,
other than infaticide is illegal.

*Legal* in your home state of Florida, *if* it happens within the first 6 weeks; within the first 15 weeks if the women can prove the pregnancy was the result of rape, incest, or human trafficking; before the third trimester if 2 doctors certify a fetal abnormality or; at any time, with a doctor's certification, if the mother faces issues similar to the health exceptions
that Tennessee allows.

IMHO, Ohio got it right. Maybe Virginia got it right. The other states
are too restrictive, except Illinois which may not be restrictive enough.

There was a time California was offering taxpayer funded flights for anyone wh
wanted an abortion... Sometimes the distance between states is a short drive..
Maybe you live in Indiana and you had to drive to Illinois because of law variations... You still get the abortion...

So now you are admitting it might be illegal in some states?

As I pointed out before, we had a Republican governor's candidate here, who made it to the general election, that wanted to track (and restrict) the movements of women of child bearing age to make sure they didn't travel to Illinois or Virginia. His supporters supported that idea. Luckily he lost.

Also, although it is legal in some states, where you have to drive to in
order to get one might make things difficult. When it was legal in
Kentucky, there was only *one* clinic, in Louisville, that would perform abortions. Towards the time it became illegal, there were two, both in Louisville. There were plenty of other places that masqueraded as
"clinics" but that wouldn't actually provide abortions to women who showed
up there. Most of them didn't even have doctors on staff.

You also have to have someone willing to travel with you, who can drive,
which brings us to...

Women have all kinds of support.

Support depends on whether or not baby daddy accepts that it is his,
and what your family (especially parents) think of a potential
out-of-wedlock kid, and whether or not you can find someone willing to
drive you to and from whatever city in whatever state that actually will
allow you to get the procedure done.

Women can have sex with as many partners as
they want. Shaming women for open sexuality is a thing of the past... for the
most part.

I think some of this depends on where you live. Not being shamed is not a thing of the past here. Maybe in Florida it is, but not in most of the South, or Midwest.

They have access to all kinds of contraception, all kinds.

This also depends some on where you live, whether or not you can take birth control pills (some women cannot), and also whether or not your partner is willing to use the types available to him.

If you go ahead with the baby. The baby daddy will be on the hook to pay for the next 25 years...

Maybe, maybe not. I used to work with Child Support here in Kentucky, and there are a lot of ways baby daddy can get out of paying, including being violent towards mother or baby.

And all I think... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... If you want an abortion do it in the
first trimester... if you need on after that point there needs to be a reason.

I mostly agree. After the point of fetal viability, it should be
questioned.

They were not talking about viable births. The discussion at that point would be do we let the non-viable born baby die naturally, or extend its life with pallative care until the parents are ready to pull the plug.

Just like with any other dying person.

Problem is I heard it myself. A Dr should through everything he knows into saving lives. I understand old people may have "Do Not Resuscitate" orders on
their records... I understand that.

You don't take a new born baby make it comfortable while you talk to mom about
killing it.

You should if it is dying and there is no hope of saving it. Do you think
they should leave baby uncomfortable, not discuss what to do, and just wait
for baby to die?

The US is the only country that guarantees individual rights... I know of no other that has the setup like the US has.

Agreed.


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Re: Re: Women: Enough with th
By: Mike Powell to IB JOE on Sun Aug 18 2024 09:35 am

If something is against your religion and morals, don't do it.

This. I hate when people try to use religion to push policy. Like that idiot governor that required the 10 commandments to be posted in school. That should not be legal. Also irritates me when people act like you cannot be moral without also being religious. I don't need to believe in a god to know it's not right to kill people, lie, cheat, steal, etc.

Some other politician should sponsor a bill that requires the Quran to be posted in schools - using the exact same language of the commandments bill, just swapping Quran for 10 commandments. I'd love to see the religious right lose their shit over that, and I'd be curious to see how they can scream about that whilst defending the Christian version lol
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Re: Re: Women: Enough with th
By: IB Joe to Mike Powell on Sun Aug 18 2024 02:04 pm

If they want an abortion they have access... No matter where you are you can

What? That's patently false. Ever since RvW was abolished, several states jumped right onto locking it down. Alabama for example; you can't get an abortion even if it's the day after you had sex. Only exception is if the mother's life is in danger.
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On 19 Aug 2024, Mike Powell said the following...

No it is not. Just looking at my state, states that surround it, and a couple of others I am aware of because they've been in the news:

*Illegal* in Kentucky, since August, 2022 unless there is a
proven risk of possible death or permanent injury to the mother. There
is no rape or incest exception.

Wikipedia says....

Prior to 2019, Kentucky law prohibited abortions after week 22. This changed when the state legislature passed a law that moved the prohibition to week 6 in the early part of the year. A bill passed and made effective in April 2022 lowered the threshold to 15 weeks, the second most restrictive limit in effect in the United States behind Texas, and introduced regulations that made abortion illegal until it was blocked in federal court.

Anyway... Did some reading and there are states that restrict access. It doesn't change my argument though.

In a representative republic it's the people who decide. If I was all in on abortions I'd be in contact with my representative.

There has to be a happy medium between later-term and partial birth Abortions... and banning them entirely.

I think the Feds should stay out of it... but if they had to get involved they can cap things at 15 weeks with some exceptions...

So now you are admitting it might be illegal in some states?

What I did say is this... If you want to kill your baby on it's delivery day California will pay for your flight. If you don't like Texas' law move or be active with your representative and demand change

I think the laws should reflect the way the Democrats sold Abortion to us... Rare, Safe and Legal.

Again this are my feelings and beliefs. I see that I would never get exactly what I want.... and I'd be willing to concede a little on this...

Ladies... If you don't want to get pregnant don't have sex with people who can get you pregnant. If you get pregnant and don't want it get an abortion early. If you go ahead with the pregnancy there are a million options for you.

Men... If you don't want you babies killed don't have sex with someone who can get pregnant by you, she can end your child's life without your consent. AND men... Do not let that pretty $100 dress, fake nails and makeup turn into 100's of thousands of dollars in child support.

rent the stuff... BJ cost $500 pesos in the Dominican Republic... Keep your assets and enjoy life!!!

BTW... DNC is giving free abortions this week in Chicago!!!

Support depends on whether or not baby daddy accepts that it is his,
and what your family (especially parents) think of a potential out-of-wedlock kid, and whether or not you can find someone willing to drive you to and from whatever city in whatever state that actually will allow you to get the procedure done.

You should get on youtude... State does DNA tests and takes money directly from his check.

True story... I was getting a haircut... Walmart... the guy cutting my hair was talking about how his baby mamas, there was 2, were busting his balls. Someone walked and gave him an envelope... pay stub... he opened it... and all he was paid was $12 for 2 weeks of work... Baby mamas get his entire check.

I asked him nicely if he could finish my hair before he did anything else.

I seen a few too many episodes on Maury Povich were by it look like some women were making sure they had 6 baby daddies rather than 1 baby daddy for 6 babies.

There is a responsibility ti your choices. Soooooooooo many options...

Live with the consequences...

Don't have coitus if there is a chance you'll get pregnant.

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On 19 Aug 2024, Ken Nischan said the following...

What? That's patently false. Ever since RvW was abolished, several states jumped right onto locking it down. Alabama for example; you
can't get an abortion even if it's the day after you had sex. Only exception is if the mother's life is in danger.

After delving into the topic... We are a representative republic... BUG the sh!t out of your representative to make some changes.

If you get pregnant you have options... and if you still want to kill it you might have to drive a few hours.

And I have said this a few times... Planned Parenthood offering free abortions at the DNC this week. And vasectomies as well...

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Ken Nischan -> Mike Powell skrev 2024-08-19 20:42:

This. I hate when people try to use religion to push policy.

That's typical MAGA. "Only we know what's best for you. Trust us."

Like that idiot
governor that required the 10 commandments to be posted in school. That should not be legal.

It is totally illegal. The USC clearly say so. It takes a Trump-stuffed SCOTUS to change it from illegal to legal.

Also irritates me when people act like you cannot be moral
without also being religious. I don't need to believe in a god to know it's
not right to kill people, lie, cheat, steal, etc.

More specifically, the 1st amendment clearly says that you are entitled to believe whatever you want without anyone trying to convince you otherwise.

Some other politician should sponsor a bill that requires the Quran to be posted in schools

They might start by reading the Quran and then comparing it to the Bible, which is an almost verbatim copy.

I would recommend a mandatory watch and the discussion of Jamie Raskins 40 minute class about religious unconstitutionality in the US:

https://youtu.be/ashBPmx5sP4


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I'm 76 years old now, so the window is closing. I want to be alive to see the first woman President of the United States of America.

..

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No it is not. Just looking at my state, states that surround it, and a couple of others I am aware of because they've been in the news:

*Illegal* in Kentucky, since August, 2022 unless there is a
proven risk of possible death or permanent injury to the mother. There is no rape or incest exception.

Wikipedia says....

Prior to 2019, Kentucky law prohibited abortions after week 22. This changed when the state legislature passed a law that moved the prohibition to week 6 i
the early part of the year. A bill passed and made effective in April 2022 lowered the threshold to 15 weeks, the second most restrictive limit in effect
in the United States behind Texas, and introduced regulations that made abortion illegal until it was blocked in federal court.

It is illegal now, unless there is risk to the mother's health.

There has to be a happy medium between later-term and partial birth Abortions... and banning them entirely.

Agreed, and many states didn't find that medium. Ohio did... "fetal viability."

I think the Feds should stay out of it... but if they had to get involved they
can cap things at 15 weeks with some exceptions...

I think they should mostly stay out of it, too.

I think the laws should reflect the way the Democrats sold Abortion to us... Rare, Safe and Legal.

Agreed.

BTW... DNC is giving free abortions this week in Chicago!!!

They are also giving vasectomies, as you pointed out previously. They apparently interviewed, on the news, at least one man who was getting one.
If you are a Republican, the idea of future Democrats being nipped in the
bud should be a happy thing, right? ;)

You should get on youtude... State does DNA tests and takes money directly fro
his check.

States will do tests if baby mama will provide a name and if the person
named can be found. If they are believed to be abusive, this state won't
look for them because they don't want daddy having any contact with mother
or baby.

True story... I was getting a haircut... Walmart... the guy cutting my hair wa
talking about how his baby mamas, there was 2, were busting his balls. Someon
walked and gave him an envelope... pay stub... he opened it... and all he was paid was $12 for 2 weeks of work... Baby mamas get his entire check.

Having worked with Child Support I can guarantee you that for every baby
daddy in that situation, there is at least one kid out there who doesn't
have any baby daddy money coming in. Even the ones that have some money
coming in, the taxpayers are paying for them, too.

The daddies in your barber's situation either manned up and agreed to pay,
were married to the mother, or somehow otherwise got tracked down.

I asked him nicely if he could finish my hair before he did anything else.

Good idea. Hope he didn't take too much off!


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Under Harris, no one will be able to afford to do any of that.

Abortions will be "free"...

Fixed it for you. Someone will pay for them, and I am pretty sure that the administration will take great joy knowing that some of the taxpayers who
are footing the bill have religious objections to the practice.


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On 16 Aug 2024, Mike Powell said the following...

Abortions will be "free"...

Fixed it for you. Someone will pay for them, and I am pretty sure that the administration will take great joy knowing that some of the taxpayers who are footing the bill have religious objections to the practice.

Here's the problem... The Democrats believe its free if they use tax payers money to fund it.

Yep, that is what I was getting at. ;)

If the left want free abortions there are enough mechanisms out there that could handle it... All the baby-killingh lovers can send money and it not even
be a political question..

You've actually hit on something here that turned me pro-choice. Most
people who are pro-life will talk about all the "innocent children" but, if
you point out to them that they need to either be willing to adopt a few of these "saved innocent children," or allow their tax dollars to go to
supporting them, you quickly find out that most of them want nothing to do
with that, either.

That tells me their objections to abortion have nothing to do with the "innocent children."

I don't mind the objections to having tax dollars going to fund abortions,
but the push to make them completely illegal goes beyond that. If they
aren't willing to chip in and do their part to raise these kids, then they
need to accept that abortion happens.


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On 17 Aug 2024, Mike Powell said the following...

You've actually hit on something here that turned me pro-choice. Most people who are pro-life will talk about all the "innocent children" but, if you point out to them that they need to either be willing to adopt a few of these "saved innocent children," or allow their tax dollars to go to supporting them, you quickly find out that most of them want nothing
to do with that, either.

That tells me their objections to abortion have nothing to do with the "innocent children."

I don't mind the objections to having tax dollars going to fund
abortions, but the push to make them completely illegal goes beyond
that. If they aren't willing to chip in and do their part to raise
these kids, then they need to accept that abortion happens.

I have some mixed feelings on tis...

I am pro life, not hard line, none the less pro life. My FEELINGS are this... Like when Roe was first in the system they said LEGAL, RARE & SAFE... it became Not Rare and late-term... up to and including the day of birth... for any reason.

I believe if you were to have an abortion that it should be done when the fetus, AKA Baby, resembles a clump of cells. Even most liberal European countries have limits, like the first trimester... Instead we have the left's idea where you can end a pregnancy up to and including the day of delivery... for any reason.

BTW, I actually saw the interview with the old Governor of Virginia, not the current one, where he talked about aborting babies who are already born...

Today women have access to birth control. They have access to all kinds of support if they choose to have the baby. They can get child support frrom the Baby Daddy... In fact there are some women who get paid from several Baby Daddies and are making a good living collecting checks.... I wandered there. It is not the early 1900s...

If you can't get your sh!t together withing the first trimester you need to carry it to term and adopt it out... or give the father a chance to raise it.

People who are pro life should not be on the hook for killing babies... There are several left-wing groups who'd be willing to pay.

We've lost the culture here... We can't put the toothpaste back into the tube...

The overturning of Roe didn't make it illegal to have an abortion... like the 10th Amendment says...

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The current state of affairs is more in line with the Constitution where the States and the People will vote on their views on the matter.

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