Hello, all.

Native speakers have frequenly corrected my questions worded
like "How to stroke a cat?", saying that this is not a com-
plete sentence, but a phrase, which may work only without a
question mark as a title to a chapter in the cat man page.

What say you, then, to the following question from Dunsany's
"King of Elfland's Daughter" -- the most poetic work of
prose about the Good people (followed closely by Machen's
"The White People"):

Sorrowfully then that parliament of Erl saw that their
plans to have a magic lord had failed; they were all
old men, and the hope that they had had for so long
being gone they turned less easily to newer plans than
they had to the plan that they made so long ago. What
should they do now, they said? How come by magic?
What could they do that the world should remember Erl?
Twelve old men without magic. They sat there over
their mead, and it could not lighten their sadness.

If "How to come by magic?" is not grammatical, why "How come
by magic?" is? How explain this difference?
---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hi, Anton -- on Feb 07 2022 at 09:25, you wrote:

If "How to come by magic?" is not grammatical, why "How come by
magic?" is? How explain this difference?

First of all, the text you've quoted is a) old, b) fiction, c) deliberately (imo) written to sound mysterious and d) "How come by magic" is not grammatically correct.

I think you're causing yourself grief by using these old texts and trying to explain them using modern grammar.


Cheers... Dallas

--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, CANADA (1:153/7715)

Hi, Anton! Recently you wrote in a message to All:

Native speakers have frequenly corrected my questions
worded like "How to stroke a cat?", saying that this
is not a complete sentence [...].

AFAIK I wasn't there, so I can only guess what was going on. But a couple of ideas come to mind in this particular case:

1. Not everyone agrees about what a sentence is. Miss Stickler
would have insisted it have a subject & a predicate, which means the subject
of an imperative sentence is "you (understood)". Nowadays a sentence may be
defined as a complete thought... in which case far less mental gear-grinding
is expected of the hapless student. If s/he can't figure out why "Stop!" is
a sentence but "Whoa!" isn't I understand where such people are coming from.

2. It appears to me that when some author writes "But how to do
this seemingly impossible task?" s/he is often reporting on what a character
is thinking. And even Miss Stickler can't control my thoughts... [chuckle].

What say you, then, to the following question from
Dunsany's "King of Elfland's Daughter" --

First, I might say that if you ever visit our home in Canada you'll probably hear things like "douse the glim". While I don't expect everyone to understand such antiquated language, I have no doubt you would. I don't mind "what say you" if you don't mind "what sayest thou". AFAIC it is not only my way of playing with the language but also of honouring the contribution of my distant ancestors, who made a mixture of languages a thing of beauty.... :-)

What should they do now, they said?
How come by magic?

The grammar here didn't make any more sense to me than it did to you ... until I tried substituting a comma for the first question mark. I think a few quotation marks would also help the reader understand the author's intent.

Twelve old men without magic.

By Miss Stickler's reckoning that's not a complete sentence.... :-Q




--- timEd/386 1.10.y2k+
* Origin: Wits' End, Vancouver CANADA (1:153/716)