I am a Marxist-Leninist... aka communist/bolshevik/(derogaatory by ultra >leftists and liberals) tankie
I am a super strong avocate for 20th century Socialism
which is worker's state, centrally planned economy, means of production seized >by workers, and no markets

The problem with socialism/communism is that you can never create a society where everyone is
equal when it comes to output and effort. You will always have people who work harder and
eventually they are going to realize that others are not working as hard as them, either because
they are not able to or just don't, and those hard workers are eventually going to question why they
are compensated at the same "rate" as others who are not as productive.

If it becomes too much of a problem, the authorities will likely vilify those who are more productive
rather than those who are less so. That happened in the USSR and, later, in East Germany where
the more productive (who also usually owned more land or livestock) were heavily targeted by the
government and party. They are seen as free thinkers and a threat. See dekulakization and
classicide. More recent examples include the Chinese reaction to the Hong Kong protests that
were going on right before COVID-19 broke out and forced it out of our news cycles.

You also do not get rid of the "elite class" that ultimately lives off of others. The USSR had party
members and other "favorites" that still got to enjoy the finer things that the rest of the country
was no longer able to without fear of reprisal. See the nomenklatura.

People always think they can do it better but, ultimately, communism and true socialism can only
(maybe) work for societies (like communes) where the persons who are members are there
voluntarily and who can leave easily if they decide they no longer want to be a part of it.
Otherwise, there will eventually be certain conflict between those who put more into their work
than others, and those who are able to curry favor with "the party" vs. others.

$$
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Re: your opinion of current world situation
By: Dumas Walker to mary4 on Sun May 19 2024 12:01 pm

The problem with socialism/communism is that you can never create a society where everyone is
equal when it comes to output and effort. You will always have people who

100% agreed. Communism or Socialism has always proven itself a theoretical and hypothetical model, that even its strictest adherents have lamented is impossible given human nature. Specifically, humans are driven by individual achievement and their immediate collective (their family, their circle of friends, their professional colleagues, etc.) will always take precedence over the broader collective.

Consider the failures of every Marxist/Lenninist state - from the USSR and Cuba to North Korea and countless other examples - and it is clear that systems of economic central planning only work through a federated model. For example, in China, the idea that "communism" could survive was abandoned in the late 1980s when much of the Politburo watched in horror as the Soviet Union started coming apart and could simply not compete with the economic output of the capitalist West.

So China did the unthinkable - it abandoned its central planning principles and started to dramatically nurture private enterprise. Today, China is broadly a capitalist system with some significant centralized controls, but it would be more appropriate to describe it as a Capitalist Oligarchy, with increasingly Sociopathic Dictatorial tendencies. Ultimately, China lacks the geopolitical resources - and it is sitting on top of a demographic crisis where ~70% of its population will be dead in the next 25 years with no hopes of replacement, thanks to the One-Child Policy - that it will not be en effective competitor to the United States or the European Union.

Capitalism continues to rule the world. The question is: how will Democracy evolve as speed and agility are starting to outstrip productivity as key measures of economic output?
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-=: Kaelon :=-

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100% agreed. Communism or Socialism has always proven itself a theoretical and >hypothetical model, that even its strictest adherents have lamented is >impossible given human nature. Specifically, humans are driven by individual >achievement and their immediate collective (their family, their circle of >friends, their professional colleagues, etc.) will always take precedence over >the broader collective.

I agree.

So China did the unthinkable - it abandoned its central planning principles and
started to dramatically nurture private enterprise. Today, China is broadly a >capitalist system with some significant centralized controls, but it would be >more appropriate to describe it as a Capitalist Oligarchy, with increasingly >Sociopathic Dictatorial tendencies.

Which would explain why some of our politicians admire them.

Ultimately, China lacks the geopolitical
resources - and it is sitting on top of a demographic crisis where ~70% of its >population will be dead in the next 25 years with no hopes of replacement, >thanks to the One-Child Policy - that it will not be en effective competitor to
the United States or the European Union.

I wonder if that demographic crisis will push them to start acting out
against other countries sooner rather than later.

Capitalism continues to rule the world. The question is: how will Democracy evolve as speed and agility are starting to outstrip productivity as key measures of economic output?

Interesting question.


* SLMR 2.1a * Final scores: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5, Earth 2.
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