Where did everyone go all of a sudden?

Recently, there was a flurry of off-topic discussion. Then, all
traffic on this newsgroup seems to have shut off very suddenly.
I checked, and it appears I'm still subscribed.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 30/05/2022 04:15, Robert Riches wrote:

Where did everyone go all of a sudden?

Recently, there was a flurry of off-topic discussion. Then, all
traffic on this newsgroup seems to have shut off very suddenly.
I checked, and it appears I'm still subscribed.

Probably weeding their gardens and cutting the grass - in the N
hemisphere its that time of year.


--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 5/29/2022 10:15 PM, Robert Riches wrote:

Where did everyone go all of a sudden?

Recently, there was a flurry of off-topic discussion. Then, all
traffic on this newsgroup seems to have shut off very suddenly.
I checked, and it appears I'm still subscribed.

Who knows, possibly they are trying to find a Raspberry Pi that slipped
in past the chip shortage. ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 May 2022 00:20:15 -0500) it happened GlowingBlueMist <GlowingBlueMist@blackhole.io> wrote in <t71k6g$rui$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 5/29/2022 10:15 PM, Robert Riches wrote:

Where did everyone go all of a sudden?

Recently, there was a flurry of off-topic discussion. Then, all
traffic on this newsgroup seems to have shut off very suddenly.
I checked, and it appears I'm still subscribed.

Who knows, possibly they are trying to find a Raspberry Pi that slipped
in past the chip shortage. ;)

Well, cross posting to uk.politics would maybe help fix that shortage,
better than talking about Boris parties..
I downloaded the latest release of raspbian or whatever its called
and as usual everything has changed, but sound worked first time.
So that keeps me busy!!
Installing zsh, lots of other stuff, recompiling all I wrote
with modification as gcc now needs a new command line parameter
so much stuff, no end in sight.
But I am sill reading the group..
rtl_sdr now also working spectrum analyzer works, dump1090 works etc..
Pi4 8 GB.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 30-05-2022 08:09, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I downloaded the latest release of raspbian or whatever its called
and as usual everything has changed, but sound worked first time.

Be sure to also try the 64-bit version, if you haven't already. It seems production-ready to me and it's the inevitable future of PiOS.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 May 2022 12:15:45 +0200) it happened "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote in <t725gh$pu2$1@dont-email.me>:

On 30-05-2022 08:09, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I downloaded the latest release of raspbian or whatever its called
and as usual everything has changed, but sound worked first time.

Be sure to also try the 64-bit version, if you haven't already. It seems >production-ready to me and it's the inevitable future of PiOS.

Yea, I took the 32 bit version as I was afraid much stuff I have / or wrote would have problems with 64
Later :-)

I would like a simple Linux without dbus and all the other mysterious crap.

I have an old PC upstairs that still has xfree and is a lot easier to work with.

The idiots:
Cannot even start an X GUI application as root in that new raspian.
Some preconfigured terminal size controls conflict with 'undo' in Joe editor

As to joe editor I think I re-compiled from source and used old joerc to get rid of the annoying colors
Same for zsh, used my old config from the laptop.
Good:
I just got FM stereo working via rtl-sdr by modifying rtl_fm_stereo_miroslav
so it compiles on raspi (else it wants SSE)
AND I got my NewsFleX Usenet newsreader working on raspi.

Few hundred programs to go.

As to 'security' why all that shit with blocking root??
Been root since 1998!

Any 'bad' guy who can get into the pi account can do sudo rm -rf /*

Even Linus himself commented on the sudo shit years ago.
You do not drive your car from the passenger seat!! Dangerous! (my take)

So, in short: forget about 64 bit, maybe I will have a go at that Ubuntu, or what's it called openBSD?
Or write my own Linux using old code.
Raspian seems to have become a hobby project by clueless tinkerers that are not real programmers themselves
I would fire them on the spot!!!!!!
Was not raspi an educational project in the beginning?
Seems that now misses the point.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Mon, 30 May 2022 15:55:30 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 May 2022 12:15:45 +0200) it happened "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote in <t725gh$pu2$1@dont-email.me>:

On 30-05-2022 08:09, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I downloaded the latest release of raspbian or whatever its called and
as usual everything has changed, but sound worked first time.

Be sure to also try the 64-bit version, if you haven't already. It seems >>production-ready to me and it's the inevitable future of PiOS.

Yea, I took the 32 bit version as I was afraid much stuff I have / or
wrote would have problems with 64 Later :-)

I would like a simple Linux without dbus and all the other mysterious
crap.

Here, have this one on me... https://arm.slackware.com/

[snip]

HTH
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills, We Trust"

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On Mon, 30 May 2022 15:55:30 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

I would like a simple Linux without dbus and all the other mysterious
crap.

I can install a FreeBSD system without dbus - but once GUI
applications start going on it dbus appears as a *very* common dependency.

As to 'security' why all that shit with blocking root??
Been root since 1998!

On a personal system it's silly. In a corporate environment
blocking root and forcing sudo makes it possible to tell *who* did what
with superuser permissions - which can be a legal matter with a *lot*
riding on it (think Enron).

So, in short: forget about 64 bit, maybe I will have a go at that Ubuntu,
or what's it called openBSD?

The BSDs (which are not Linux distributions, they use their own
kernels derived from CSRG's BSD-4.4-Lite).

NetBSD is probably the purist unix around today - the aim of the
NetBSD project is to be portable to *anything* with enough processing
power, which tends to keep things pure.

OpenBSD is aimed squarely at security, everything else is secondary.

FreeBSD is aimed at people who want to build servers, it also makes
a decent workstation but tends to have trouble with the bells and whistles
of a modern Linux desktop. I like it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

Re: Re: Where did everyone go?
By: Jan Panteltje to alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid on Mon May 30 2022 03:55 pm

I would like a simple Linux without dbus and all the other mysterious crap.

If you are after a more pure Unix experience then I think NetBSD or OpenBSD are the ticket. Most Linux distributions which let you avoid dbus and all the other mysterious crap are on the complex side of the spectrum. Maybe give KISS a try (it does not run on Raspberry Pi afaik, but you can run it on an old laptop).

I think Tiny Core Linux does not include dbus by default but then it is far from a standard distribution. It has a port for the Raspberry PI.

--
gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 May 2022 16:47:39 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> wrote in <t72sfb$u0b$1@dont-email.me>:

On Mon, 30 May 2022 15:55:30 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 May 2022 12:15:45 +0200) it happened "A. Dumas"
<alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> wrote in <t725gh$pu2$1@dont-email.me>:

On 30-05-2022 08:09, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I downloaded the latest release of raspbian or whatever its called and >>>> as usual everything has changed, but sound worked first time.

Be sure to also try the 64-bit version, if you haven't already. It seems >>>production-ready to me and it's the inevitable future of PiOS.

Yea, I took the 32 bit version as I was afraid much stuff I have / or
wrote would have problems with 64 Later :-)

I would like a simple Linux without dbus and all the other mysterious
crap.

Here, have this one on me... https://arm.slackware.com/

Wow! Did not know Slackware had an ARM release!
I am running a old Slackware on this laptop!
Very nice distro.
Too bad that site wants to open some app...
So forget it

Maybe I will google some later.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On a sunny day (Mon, 30 May 2022 17:43:39 +0100) it happened Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote in <20220530174339.4d2e53f80c1fa74c5be9b799@eircom.net>:

On Mon, 30 May 2022 15:55:30 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

I would like a simple Linux without dbus and all the other mysterious
crap.

I can install a FreeBSD system without dbus - but once GUI
applications start going on it dbus appears as a *very* common dependency.

As to 'security' why all that shit with blocking root??
Been root since 1998!

On a personal system it's silly. In a corporate environment
blocking root and forcing sudo makes it possible to tell *who* did what
with superuser permissions - which can be a legal matter with a *lot*
riding on it (think Enron).

So, in short: forget about 64 bit, maybe I will have a go at that Ubuntu,
or what's it called openBSD?

The BSDs (which are not Linux distributions, they use their own
kernels derived from CSRG's BSD-4.4-Lite).

NetBSD is probably the purist unix around today - the aim of the
NetBSD project is to be portable to *anything* with enough processing
power, which tends to keep things pure.

OpenBSD is aimed squarely at security, everything else is secondary.

FreeBSD is aimed at people who want to build servers, it also makes
a decent workstation but tends to have trouble with the bells and whistles
of a modern Linux desktop. I like it.

Thank you, will look into this.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On 30/05/2022 16:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:

As to 'security' why all that shit with blocking root??
Been root since 1998!

Any 'bad' guy who can get into the pi account can do sudo rm -rf /*

BUT when YOU do it it reminds you that you are doing it, by asking for a password




--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On a sunny day (Tue, 31 May 2022 12:01:46 +0100) it happened The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in <t74siq$pus$3@dont-email.me>:

On 30/05/2022 16:55, Jan Panteltje wrote:

As to 'security' why all that shit with blocking root??
Been root since 1998!

Any 'bad' guy who can get into the pi account can do sudo rm -rf /*

BUT when YOU do it it reminds you that you are doing it, by asking for a >password

Strange, have not tried that one for obvious reasons,
but it never asks me for a pwaasword for anything else
procedure, as user pi:
sudo su -
whoami
root!
echo hello > /rot/q1
cat /root/q1
hello
WHAT password???

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

tOn Tue, 31 May 2022 12:02:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> declaimed the following:

Strange, have not tried that one for obvious reasons,
but it never asks me for a pwaasword for anything else
procedure, as user pi:

It's a configurable parameter -- and the R-Pi foundation, for some reason, decided to configure the pi account as "no password needed"

https://www.tecmint.com/run-sudo-command-without-password-linux/

Don't know if that holds for the latest OS release -- as I understand it, there is no default pi account. One has to create a new account name/password during first boot of a fresh install.

sudo su -
whoami
root!
echo hello > /rot/q1
cat /root/q1
hello
WHAT password???

Same sequence on a BeagleBone Black running Debian 10 (ignoring the typos -- you really should cut&paste the text rather than transcribe it by hand)::

-=-=- (PuTTY session)
Using username "debian".
Pre-authentication banner message from server:
| Debian GNU/Linux 10
|
| BeagleBoard.org Debian Buster IoT Image 2020-08-19
|
| Support: https://bbb.io/debian
|
| default username:password is [debian:temppwd]
|
End of banner message from server
debian@beaglebone's password:

The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
permitted by applicable law.
Last login: Tue May 3 15:04:37 2022 from fe80::c932:bd85:577:9922%eth0 debian@beaglebone:~$ sudo su -
[sudo] password for debian:
root@beaglebone:~# whoami
root
root@beaglebone:~# echo hello > /root/q1
root@beaglebone:~# cat /root/q1
hello
root@beaglebone:~# rm /root/q1
root@beaglebone:~#
-=-=-
root@beaglebone:~# cat /etc/sudoers
#
# This file MUST be edited with the 'visudo' command as root.
#
# Please consider adding local content in /etc/sudoers.d/ instead of
# directly modifying this file.
#
# See the man page for details on how to write a sudoers file.
#
Defaults env_reset
Defaults mail_badpass
Defaults secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"

# Host alias specification

# User alias specification

# Cmnd alias specification

# User privilege specification
root ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
%sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# See sudoers(5) for more information on "#include" directives:

#includedir /etc/sudoers.d
root@beaglebone:~#
root@beaglebone:~# ls /etc/sudoers.d/
admin README
root@beaglebone:~#
-=-=-

vs an R-Pi (/etc/sudoers looks identical, but...):

-=-=-
pi@rpi3bplus-1:~$ sudo su -
root@rpi3bplus-1:~# ls /etc/sudoers.d/
010_at-export 010_pi-nopasswd 010_proxy README
root@rpi3bplus-1:~# cat /etc/sudoers.d/010_pi-nopasswd
pi ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
root@rpi3bplus-1:~#
-=-=-

Remove that file and the R-Pi will ask for a password...



--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)

On a sunny day (Tue, 31 May 2022 10:16:00 -0400) it happened Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote in <nn7c9hl7iat2b5cp5osdc5v6h2fs66acdc@4ax.com>:

tOn Tue, 31 May 2022 12:02:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> declaimed the following:

Strange, have not tried that one for obvious reasons,
but it never asks me for a pwaasword for anything else
procedure, as user pi:

It's a configurable parameter -- and the R-Pi foundation, for some
reason, decided to configure the pi account as "no password needed"

https://www.tecmint.com/run-sudo-command-without-password-linux/

Don't know if that holds for the latest OS release -- as I understand
it, there is no default pi account. One has to create a new account >name/password during first boot of a fresh install.

sudo su -
whoami
root!
echo hello > /rot/q1
cat /root/q1
hello
WHAT password???

Same sequence on a BeagleBone Black running Debian 10 (ignoring the
typos -- you really should cut&paste the text rather than transcribe it by >hand)::

Yes, but for now I am still posting from my laptop..

-=-=- (PuTTY session)
Using username "debian".
Pre-authentication banner message from server:
| Debian GNU/Linux 10
|
| BeagleBoard.org Debian Buster IoT Image 2020-08-19
|
| Support: https://bbb.io/debian
|
| default username:password is [debian:temppwd]
|
End of banner message from server
debian@beaglebone's password:

The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software;
the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.

Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent
permitted by applicable law.
Last login: Tue May 3 15:04:37 2022 from fe80::c932:bd85:577:9922%eth0 >debian@beaglebone:~$ sudo su -
[sudo] password for debian:
root@beaglebone:~# whoami
root
root@beaglebone:~# echo hello > /root/q1
root@beaglebone:~# cat /root/q1
hello
root@beaglebone:~# rm /root/q1
root@beaglebone:~#
-=-=-
root@beaglebone:~# cat /etc/sudoers
#
# This file MUST be edited with the 'visudo' command as root.
#
# Please consider adding local content in /etc/sudoers.d/ instead of
# directly modifying this file.
#
# See the man page for details on how to write a sudoers file.
#
Defaults env_reset
Defaults mail_badpass
Defaults >secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"

# Host alias specification

# User alias specification

# Cmnd alias specification

# User privilege specification
root ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# Allow members of group sudo to execute any command
%sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

# See sudoers(5) for more information on "#include" directives:

#includedir /etc/sudoers.d
root@beaglebone:~#
root@beaglebone:~# ls /etc/sudoers.d/
admin README
root@beaglebone:~#
-=-=-

vs an R-Pi (/etc/sudoers looks identical, but...):

-=-=-
pi@rpi3bplus-1:~$ sudo su -
root@rpi3bplus-1:~# ls /etc/sudoers.d/
010_at-export 010_pi-nopasswd 010_proxy README
root@rpi3bplus-1:~# cat /etc/sudoers.d/010_pi-nopasswd
pi ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
root@rpi3bplus-1:~#
-=-=-

Remove that file and the R-Pi will ask for a password...

OK.
I think I have the latest32 bit raspian .. downloaded it in the weekend

Just downloaded ubuntu for pi too.
Ordered a few more micro SDcards,... will be in i na few days I hope.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)