• Re: This echo

    From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to mark lewis on Friday, January 14, 2022 20:39:06
    mark lewis wrote to Alan Ianson <=-

    that's exactly what it is...

    I created the FidoGazette because the FidoNews was and still is moribund. Anything else Ward or others say otherwise is just a fever dream on their
    part.

    The FidoGazette is for all of Fidonet, not just Zone 1. However, with a majority of Zone 2 being insular, I'd not expect anyone from Zone 2 to participate in the FG though I would certainly be welcome to be wrong on
    that.

    same here... more power to him, too... and if someone wants
    to start a 3rd or 4th alternative newsletter, i have no
    problem with that, either...

    Me either. I take no offense if someone has a better idea than I do.

    -- Sean

    ... Every man's work is a portrait of himself.
    ___ MultiMail/FreeBSD v0.52

    --- Maximus/2 3.01
    * Origin: Outpost BBS (1:18/200)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Ward Dossche on Saturday, January 15, 2022 16:22:24
    You're also peeing on your feet?

    Solved that issue by sitting down on the seat plus it took too long standing.

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Sean Dennis on Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:06:54
    Sean,

    She sent me an email. If Ward, Michiel, et al. are worried, they can
    email her and ask.

    No we can't.

    Janis went completely off-line ... if we can't mail her, neither can you.

    (It's nice to know I live rent free in Ward's and Michiel's heads though.
    I don't feel so lonely anymore! <G>)

    Whatever ... you're the one trumpeting you weren't going to act upon our messages anymore ... probably you meant "the next 31 hours".

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Sean Dennis on Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:08:25
    Sean,

    I take no offense if someone has a better idea than I do.

    Good thing, because otherwise you'd have one hell of a headache ... :-)

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Saturday, January 15, 2022 07:48:50
    On 2022 Jan 15 11:06:54, you wrote to Sean Dennis:

    She sent me an email. If Ward, Michiel, et al. are worried, they can
    email her and ask.

    No we can't.

    Janis went completely off-line ... if we can't mail her, neither can you.

    yes you can... she has a gmail account or didn't you know about that?

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... It's good to know how to dress up a tart for a special occasion.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Sean Dennis on Saturday, January 15, 2022 14:26:46
    Hello Sean,

    On Friday January 14 2022 20:35, you wrote to mark lewis:

    She sent me an email.

    So show us the e-mail.

    If Ward, Michiel, et al. are worried, they can email her and ask.

    You are the one making the claim, the burden of proof is on you.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Saturday, January 15, 2022 14:28:53
    Hello mark,

    On Saturday January 15 2022 07:48, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    No we can't.

    Janis went completely off-line ... if we can't mail her, neither
    can you.

    yes you can... she has a gmail account or didn't you know about that?

    Why should we know about that? This is Fidonet, the means of communication in Fidonet is netmail.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Michiel van der Vlist on Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:10:20
    On 2022 Jan 15 14:28:52, you wrote to me:

    No we can't.

    Janis went completely off-line ... if we can't mail her, neither
    can you.

    yes you can... she has a gmail account or didn't you know about that?

    Why should we know about that?

    if you were one of those that might have a need to contact her outside of fidonet, then she would have given it to you...

    This is Fidonet, the means of communication in Fidonet is netmail.

    yeah... and?? do you have any idea of the amount of fidonet business that's handled via email these days? i can tell you there is quite a bit... i get applications sent to me as well as helping other operators with their configs... all via email... when i see my system having problems connecting with a system linked here, they get an email letting them know about the problem... ya can't send netmail when a remote system is not answering or is refusing your connections for some reason... not to mention that people can easily check their email on their phones but not their netmail for numerous reasons...

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... So what are you gonna do Heather? Take two shots or send me out?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Aaron Thomas@1:275/99 to Ward Dossche on Saturday, January 15, 2022 13:37:19
    She sent me an email. If Ward, Michiel, et al. are worried, they can email her and ask.

    No we can't.

    Janis went completely off-line ... if we can't mail her, neither can you.

    She's still answering phone calls. One phone call can take all the worry away.

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: CompuBBS | Ashburn VA | cfbbs.scinet-ftn.org (1:275/99)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Sunday, January 16, 2022 00:21:13
    Mark,

    if you were one of those that might have a need to contact her outside of fidonet, then she would have given it to you...

    I have her phone-# ... does that count?

    .. i get applications sent to me ...

    Sure ... then how come we notice no growth?

    ... as well as helping other operators with their configs...

    So you're claiming most other Fidonet sysops are morons because they need to be helped?

    ... not
    to mention that people can easily check their email on their phones but
    not their netmail for numerous reasons...

    I can read netmail via my phone ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 09 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:2320/33 to Terry Roati on Saturday, January 15, 2022 21:24:00
    Terry,

    You're also peeing on your feet?

    Solved that issue by sitting down on the seat plus it took too long standing.

    Like the little girl being disappointed that she can't pee standing
    up, the way Daddy does. :P

    Or like these memes and stories between young kids:

    1) The boy and girl are looking down their diapers, and one says "So,
    that explains the difference in our salaries".

    2) The boy and girl are naked in the bathtub together, and he tells her
    (as she reaches for his member), "You can't have mine!! You broke yours
    off!!".

    3) Years ago, a young boy and girl lived in this small country town. This
    was back when life was simple...where you could leave your doors unlocked
    at night, and didn't have to worry about perverts kidnapping your kids.

    The boy was Christian, and the girl was Catholic, and their respective churches were right across the street from each other. Plus, they were
    great friends, so they walked to church in their fancy clothes each
    Sunday.

    Well, one Sunday at church, during the services, there was a huge thunderstorm, and it just poured rain. Afterwards, as they walked home
    they came across a huge puddle, and correctly assumed that if they got
    their nice clothes dirty, they'd get the spanking of their lives. The
    little girl was about to cry, and her boy friend (as it were) thought
    a moment, and came up with a novel idea.

    "I'll be like Sir Walter Raleigh...a true gentleman". Let's strip
    butt naked, and I'll carry you across, then our clothes across, so
    they won't get dirty. Then, no one will know that anything happened".
    His girl friend brightened up, and consented.

    So, they both strip butt naked right there, and as a perfect
    gentleman, he does what he said he would do...carry her, then the
    clothes across to the dry side of the puddle.

    As they're standing there, looking at each others nude body, the
    little girl says "I didn't know there was such a difference between
    Protestants and Catholics". <G>

    4) Along the same time as the above, Momma and her daughter would go
    traveling in the summer, taking the interstate highway. This was long
    before you had to worry about the pedophiles and perverts at the rest
    areas.

    In potty training her daughter (a ritual for all parents), she told
    her to always look for the LONGER name...and it would be WOMEN versus
    MEN. She learned that the longer one was the one she'd use.

    Well, they are traveling one year, and after stopping off for a
    nice picnic lunch, Momma admonishes her daughter to go use the
    bathroom before they start off again...and tells her daughter to
    "look for the longer name".

    The little girl gets to the restrooms, and the signs note LADIES
    versus GENTLEMEN -- guess which one is longer. <G>

    So, she does as Momma has told her, and walks in there, and
    there's a little boy naked as a jaybird. Curiosity strikes the
    little girl (she has never seen a naked boy), and asks him "What
    are you doing??"...then sees his member, and asks "What have you
    got there??" and "What does it do??".

    The little boy tells her, and astonished, the little girl says
    "Boy!! That's a handy thing to have along at picnics!!".

    I would've loved to seen the look on Momma's face when she
    told her. <BG>

    Daryl

    ... "Poo Poo Happens" -Bumper sticker on a baby stroller.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Win32
    * Origin: The Thunderbolt BBS - Little Rock, Arkansas (1:2320/33)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, January 16, 2022 06:06:22
    On 2022 Jan 16 00:21:12, you wrote to me:

    if you were one of those that might have a need to contact her
    outside of fidonet, then she would have given it to you...

    I have her phone-# ... does that count?

    it might...

    .. i get applications sent to me ...

    Sure ... then how come we notice no growth?

    maybe you're not paying attention?
    maybe the applicants aren't responding?
    maybe you're not looking in the right place?

    ... as well as helping other operators with their configs...

    So you're claiming most other Fidonet sysops are morons because they
    need to be helped?

    nope... those are your words... they say a lot about what you think of others who may need assistance at times...

    ... not to mention that people can easily check their email on their
    phones but not their netmail for numerous reasons...

    I can read netmail via my phone ...

    not everyone has your majikal skillz, ward...

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... Ya know what burns my butt? A flame about yay-high.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to mark lewis on Sunday, January 16, 2022 16:22:11
    Hello mark,

    On Saturday January 15 2022 11:10, you wrote to me:

    Janis went completely off-line ... if we can't mail her,
    neither can you.

    yes you can...
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    So here you claim that we can e-mail Janis.

    she has a gmail account or didn't you know about that?

    Why should we know about that?

    if you were one of those that might have a need to contact her outside
    of fidonet, then she would have given it to you...

    And here you claim I can only e-mail her if she gave that e-mail address to me. Well, she didn't. And it works both ways, I see no need for her to contact me oustide Fidonet so I did not give her my e-mail address.

    So you say I can not e-mail her. So out of the windows goes your original claim that I can e-mail her.

    Not that I want or need to. I am not going to e-mail Janis. Because I see no reason, It is Sean that claims he got an e-mail from Janis. The burden of proof is on him.

    Now that I have your attention... For the sake of argument and only for the sake of argument, I have not, nor did I have any intention of actually do this, assume that I had beaten Sean to it.

    Suppose that *I* had posted a message in here claiming the position of moderator of this echo and the position of the editor of the Gazette. Suppose *I* had posted rules stating among other things that EP1 is in force here and that no echolist is accepted as authoritive regarding who is moderator and what are the rules. Suppose *I* had followed up with postings telling participants that their postings are off topic and to take it elsewhere.

    How would you (and Sean) respond to that? Would it be acceptable to you? Would you comply with my rulings?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:39:00
    Hello Michiel van der Vlist!

    ** On Sunday 16.01.22 - 16:22, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to mark lewis:

    MvdV> Not that I want or need to. I am not going to e-mail
    MvdV> Janis. Because I MvdV> see no reason, It is Sean that
    MvdV> claims he got an e-mail from Janis. The burden of proof
    MvdV> is on him.

    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    ;)

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to August Abolins on Sunday, January 16, 2022 17:50:01
    August wrote (2022-01-16):

    ** On Sunday 16.01.22 - 16:22, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to mark lewis:

    MvdV>> Not that I want or need to. I am not going to e-mail
    MvdV>> Janis. Because I MvdV> see no reason, It is Sean that
    MvdV>> claims he got an e-mail from Janis. The burden of proof
    MvdV>> is on him.

    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    Nope, not if we are just ignoring the rules and tell Sean he can shove it up his ass. Now he can try to enforce the rules ;-P

    ---
    * Origin: Birds aren't real (2:280/464.47)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Sunday, January 16, 2022 17:41:57
    Hello August,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 11:39, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Not that I want or need to. I am not going to e-mail Janis. Because
    MvdV>> I see no reason, It is Sean that claims he got an e-mail from
    MvdV>> Janis. The burden of proof is on him.

    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    This is not a court of law, there is no plaintiff. This is a discussion area where someone made a claim. The burden of proof is always on the one making the claim.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:59:00
    Hello Michiel van der Vlist!

    ** On Sunday 16.01.22 - 17:41, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to August Abolins:

    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    This is not a court of law, there is no plaintiff. This is
    a discussion area where someone made a claim. The burden of
    proof is always on the one making the claim.

    Maybe plaintiff or claim doesn't translate well in your native
    language.. dunno. :/ Nevertheless, it doesn't matter. Sean
    merely made a statement/announcement of new moderatorship, but
    he doesn't have release phone records or email records to the
    general public like you are suggesting.

    The proof in the legit hand-over is in the successful elisting.
    Sean wouldn't be able to do that unless Janis provided the
    password. ;)

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oli on Sunday, January 16, 2022 13:45:10
    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    Nope, not if we are just ignoring the rules and tell Sean he can shove it up his ass. Now he can try to enforce the rules ;-P

    Why do you ignore the rules?

    What is the issue if Sean continues on with the gazette?

    Does it matter if Janis passed it to him or if he carries on?

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Sunday, January 16, 2022 23:14:13
    Hello August,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 12:59, you wrote to me:

    This is not a court of law, there is no plaintiff. This is
    a discussion area where someone made a claim. The burden of
    proof is always on the one making the claim.

    Maybe plaintiff or claim doesn't translate well in your native
    language.. dunno. :/

    Or maybe it doesn't translate well into YOUR native language? Neither of us is a native English speaker, but I have lived and worked in an English speaking country.

    Nevertheless, it doesn't matter. Sean merely made a
    statement/announcement of new moderatorship, but he doesn't have
    release phone records or email records to the general public like you
    are suggesting.

    Sean claimed that he had received a netmail from Janis. The burden of proof for that claim is on him.

    The proof in the legit hand-over is in the successful elisting. Sean wouldn't be able to do that unless Janis provided the password. ;)

    Sorry, the history of Fidonet has many examples of faul play. That he managed to get a password for an e-list means nothing to me. E-lists are not recognised as authoritive in these matters in most parts of Fidonet anyway.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:05:38
    Alam,

    What is the issue if Sean continues on with the gazette?

    Sean will never be able to provide the same amount of content to the FG than this exchange of ideas is doing here ...

    I'm patiently waiting for the next issue ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:06:38
    I can read netmail via my phone ...

    not everyone has your majikal skillz, ward...

    There are at least 2 packages for Android phones which will do Fido...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:07:30
    Not that I want or need to. I am not going to e-mail Janis. Because I see no reason, It is Sean that claims he got an e-mail from Janis. The burden of proof is on him.

    It reminds me of the times when Janis claimed to have secret conversations with Bin Li ... ZC6 ... we never saw then and some of us tried to phone him ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, January 16, 2022 15:15:22
    What is the issue if Sean continues on with the gazette?

    Sean will never be able to provide the same amount of content

    I wasn't talking about content, I was asking what is the issue if Sean continues the gazette.

    to the FG than this exchange of ideas is doing here ...

    This has not been anything like an exchange of ideas.

    I'm patiently waiting for the next issue ...

    I can tell.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:26:15
    I wasn't talking about content, I was asking what is the issue if Sean continues the gazette.

    None. He can do as he pleases.

    Sean never finishes what he starts so eventually maybe other than an autopost claimimg he's the moderator and doing auto-Elist-updates nothing will happen after a few issues were produced.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:25:55
    Hello Ward,

    On Monday January 17 2022 00:07, you wrote to me:

    It reminds me of the times when Janis claimed to have secret
    conversations with Bin Li ... ZC6 ... we never saw then and some of us tried to phone him ...

    I was one of them. Someone answered the phone, but I was unable to communicatie with him. I say "him" because to me it sounded like a male. But that is as far as I got. I do not know if it actually was Bin Li that answered. Did Bin Li actually exist? I do not know. All I know is that /if/ he existed, I was unable to communicate with him.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, January 16, 2022 18:34:00
    Hello Michiel van der Vlist!

    ** On Sunday 16.01.22 - 23:14, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to August Abolins:

    Or maybe it doesn't translate well into YOUR native
    language? Neither of us is a native English speaker,
    but I have lived and worked in an English speaking
    country.

    I was born in an english speaking country. The foreign language
    was primilarily only within the home. That's probably a salient
    difference between you and I.

    Sean claimed that he had received a netmail from Janis. The
    burden of proof for that claim is on him.

    First you snub my use of the term plaintiff because this matter
    is not in court of law, yet you use "burden of proof" where
    that term is use quite normally in court. Ah.. have I stumbled
    into the Court of MvdV? :/

    The proof in the legit hand-over is in the successful
    elisting. Sean wouldn't be able to do that unless Janis
    provided the password. ;)

    Sorry, the history of Fidonet has many examples of faul
    play. That he managed to get a password for an e-list means
    nothing to me. E-lists are not recognised as authoritive in
    these matters in most parts of Fidonet anyway.

    Perhaps this exchange belongs in CONSPRCY echo. :/

    The nature of Fidonet echomail is that echos can be added at
    will, and participating systems can choose to link up or not. A
    certain amount of cooperation and understanding is ingrained in
    the process.

    What difference does it make how a transition took place and
    handed to another person who is willing to nurture it?

    Besides, Sean was the original creator of the echo (and
    newsletter) too. It seems appopriate for Sean to carry its
    torch irregardless what other people fantasize has happend.

    You have the ability to conduct your own investigation too. A
    simple google search has provided several possibilities to try.


    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, January 16, 2022 15:33:18
    Suppose that *I* had posted a message in here claiming the position of moderator of this echo and the position of the editor of the Gazette.

    OK, let's suppose that.

    Suppose *I* had posted rules stating among other things that EP1 is in force here and that no echolist is accepted as authoritive regarding who is moderator and what are the rules. Suppose *I* had followed up with postings telling participants that their postings are off topic and to take it elsewhere.

    You could do that if you wanted to. In this case Sean beat you to it. Is it possible you and Sean could work together on the gazette.

    How would you (and Sean) respond to that? Would it be acceptable to you? Would you comply with my rulings?

    Sure, if you were an editor/co-editor of the gazette and the echo and you made realistic rulings.

    Of course we all know that is not what you are doing here.

    The Fido Times is unused and if you have real ideas for a fido zine you could do that there, or something similar.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, January 16, 2022 15:42:34
    I wasn't talking about content, I was asking what is the issue if Sean
    continues the gazette.

    None. He can do as he pleases.

    Thanks. I almost thought there was some kind of issue.

    Sean never finishes what he starts so eventually maybe other than an autopost claimimg he's the moderator and doing auto-Elist-updates nothing will happen after a few issues were produced.

    Sean will need content for the gazette and that is the hard part.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 00:51:58
    Hello August,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 18:34, you wrote to me:

    Besides, Sean was the original creator of the echo (and newsletter)
    too. It seems appopriate for Sean to carry its torch

    On the contrary! Sean was indeed the original creator of the echo and he ABANDONNED it after a relatively short time. Others took over. I say he had his chance and he blew it. He is last in line, not first.

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 01:19:02
    Sean will need content for the gazette and that is the hard part.

    No kidding ...

    Janis crossposted some messages from echomail which we all had read already ...

    I do not consider that "content".

    The real problem is that as good as no-one is willing/available to write content. In the heyday there were plenty developments, the ratio of that has decreased substantially.

    It is obvious with the Fidonews ... I've been writing obituaries ... should be a hint.

    I also encouraged Vince to write something about his Filegate-activity ... if he doesn't ... well ... the story of the horse and the water?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, January 16, 2022 21:05:00
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Monday 17.01.22 - 00:51, you wrote:

    ..I say he had his chance and he blew it. He is last in
    line, not first.

    I'd say.. let's give the new guy a chance. Anything published
    at this point might be a breath of fresh air. That can be a
    *first*. ;)

    And.. as he stated, the success of the mag would primarily
    depend on submissions.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 03:43:24
    Michiel,

    It reminds me of the times when Janis claimed to have secret
    conversations with Bin Li ... ZC6 ... we never saw then and some of Mv>WD> us tried to phone him ...

    I was one of them.

    I did too and there were others.

    At some point I tried a conversation and the answer was "No Inglies, no Inglies" and hung up.

    Tried polling his node during their local ZMH ... voice-connect ... but Janis said that she had very good conversations with him. There was even mail from him in the best Oxford-english in the ZCC-conference ... pure manipulation.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 03:44:00
    And.. as he stated, the success of the mag would primarily
    depend on submissions.

    If "I" write something, it goes into Fidonews ... that's the historical time track of events ...

    Let's see how much stuff Sean will publish after he's done Khrapping on Michiel and me?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, January 16, 2022 21:49:00
    Hello Ward Dossche!

    ** On Friday 14.01.22 - 10:19, Ward Dossche wrote to Alan Ianson:

    I have also collected moderator titles. I am not
    interested in moderator hats, I just want the echoes to
    carry on and be listed in the echolist so that interested
    parties can look them up and find info about them.

    None of my echoes are listed in the echolist. They are just fine.

    And how do people learn what those echos are?

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Alan Ianson on Sunday, January 16, 2022 21:59:00
    Alan Ianson wrote to Oli <=-

    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    Nope, not if we are just ignoring the rules and tell Sean he can shove it up his ass. Now he can try to enforce the rules ;-P

    Why do you ignore the rules?

    Because he's an asshole. Same as the other idiots with their panties in a bunch over this "issue".

    What is the issue if Sean continues on with the gazette?

    There isn't one. The above mentioned assholes just like to cause problems,
    and are resistive to ANY change. I think that they actually also believe
    that their "knowledge" of ancient-history FidoNet gives them some kind of power, or something.

    Does it matter if Janis passed it to him or if he carries on?

    Of course it doesn't. Well, not to sane/stable folks, anyway.


    ... Consistency isn't always good - especially if you're consistently wrong. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sunday, January 16, 2022 22:04:00
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to August Abolins <=-

    Besides, Sean was the original creator of the echo (and newsletter)
    too. It seems appopriate for Sean to carry its torch

    On the contrary! Sean was indeed the original creator of the echo
    and he ABANDONNED it after a relatively short time. Others took
    over. I say he had his chance and he blew it. He is last in line,
    not first.

    How many people are in line for the job?

    That's right. One. Sean.

    Give it a rest you fucking jackwagon.



    ... Your inability to understand something is not a valid argument against it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Sunday, January 16, 2022 22:08:00
    Ward Dossche wrote to August Abolins <=-

    And.. as he stated, the success of the mag would primarily
    depend on submissions.

    If "I" write something, it goes into Fidonews ... that's the
    historical time track of events ...

    Oh yeah, the FidoNews is chock full of submissions/content.

    What a joke. I haven't seen a *SINGLE* submission there in MONTHS
    (at least). It's just an automated posting of lame useless bullshit,
    like how many IPV6 nodes there are, and a list of retro software.
    Every single issue is exactly the same. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

    Let's see how much stuff Sean will publish after he's done
    Khrapping on Michiel and me?

    Yes, let's see. Can we at least give that chance and STFU about
    it until then?



    ... Warning! Error in REALITY.SYS! Proceeding with BIGBANG.EXE
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 17, 2022 01:36:10
    On 2022 Jan 17 00:06:38, you wrote to me:

    I can read netmail via my phone ...

    not everyone has your majikal skillz, ward...

    There are at least 2 packages for Android phones which will do Fido...

    those are point packages, IIRC... how can they read netmail addressed to your node?

    even so, not everyone has an android phone... i don't...

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... Do Chocolate-covered cherries count as fruit?
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 01:40:04
    On 2022 Jan 17 00:51:58, you wrote to August Abolins:

    Besides, Sean was the original creator of the echo (and newsletter)
    too. It seems appopriate for Sean to carry its torch

    On the contrary! Sean was indeed the original creator of the echo and he ABANDONNED it after a relatively short time.

    he did not abandon it... he gave it to janis... your history sucks...

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... Soft drink containers that require a forklift for pouring.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 07:58:06
    None of my echoes are listed in the echolist. They are just fine.

    And how do people learn what those echos are?

    Word of mouth ... carried on a BBS and further explored.

    I do not collect tags BTW.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Monday, January 17, 2022 08:21:33
    those are point packages, IIRC... how can they read netmail addressed to your node?

    D'Bridge runs on Android too.

    even so, not everyone has an android phone... i don't...

    You have a point there ...

    What I noticed during my last stay around New Year is I couldn't survive without such a phone. Even bought a Tracphone as well for US communications.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to mark lewis on Monday, January 17, 2022 08:23:58
    On the contrary! Sean was indeed the original creator of the echo
    and he ABANDONNED it after a relatively short time.

    he did not abandon it... he gave it to janis... your history sucks...

    Sean has a big mouth and will not deliver, he's famous for that.

    He won't get past issue #5 because there will be no decent content, no-one will write it every week and he surely won't either ... and you know I'm right.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 10:30:07
    Hello Alan,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 15:33, you wrote to me:

    You could do that if you wanted to.

    I don't want to.

    In this case Sean beat you to it. Is it possible you and Sean could
    work together on the gazette.

    And pigs will fly...

    How would you (and Sean) respond to that? Would it be acceptable to
    you? Would you comply with my rulings?

    Sure, if you were an editor/co-editor of the gazette and the echo and
    you made realistic rulings.

    Realistic rules... Realistic according to whose judgement?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 10:32:21
    Hello August,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 18:34, you wrote to me:

    First you snub my use of the term plaintiff because this matter
    is not in court of law, yet you use "burden of proof" where
    that term is use quite normally in court. Ah.. have I stumbled
    into the Court of MvdV? :/

    The principle of "the burden of proof is on the one making the claim" is used in science. That is where I come from.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 01:51:10
    Sure, if you were an editor/co-editor of the gazette and the echo and
    you made realistic rulings.

    Realistic rules... Realistic according to whose judgement?

    The users of this area.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 10:34:16
    Hello Alan,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 15:42, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Sean will need content for the gazette and that is the hard part.

    You really believe that having a choice will create more content?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dan Clough on Monday, January 17, 2022 10:37:04
    Hello Dan,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 22:08, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

    Oh yeah, the FidoNews is chock full of submissions/content.

    What a joke. I haven't seen a *SINGLE* submission there in MONTHS
    (at least).

    You missed my article in the first issue of this year?

    How many articles did YOU write for Fidonews in the last decade?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:54:58
    Alan wrote (2022-01-16):

    But you are the plaintiff. The burden is on you it would seem.

    Nope, not if we are just ignoring the rules and tell Sean he can shove
    it up his ass. Now he can try to enforce the rules ;-P

    Why do you ignore the rules?

    Because I can, because Sean does ignore his own rules too? Because why do I need to care about Sean's same rules in every fucking echo he's grabbed?

    But more seriously? I was trying to make a point about plaintiff and the burden. It really doesn't matter, if there is a bunch of folks who doesn't respect the moderator.

    What is the issue if Sean continues on with the gazette?

    Does it matter if Janis passed it to him or if he carries on?

    I don't have any issue with that. Most of the issues I skimmed had even less content than Fidonews (meaning no new content beside the political quote from Janis). But if he is committed, why not.

    The whole thing is pretty ridiculous. Ward attacking "Nuke the echo", Sean defending by self-appointing him as moderator and posting rules. Michiel asking for proof and questioning Janis gender. Everyone blabbering about zone wars and some stories from the past that have been told over and over again...

    Btw, we should invite LL to join the discussion.

    ---
    * Origin: Birds aren't real (2:280/464.47)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dan Clough on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:34:54
    Hello Dan,

    On Sunday January 16 2022 22:04, you wrote to me:

    Give it a rest you fucking jackwagon.

    "Fucking jackwagon"? Hmmm. I am not a native English speaker, I am afraid that term is not in my dictionary. So I do not know if it is a compliment or an insult.

    Oh well, realistic rules should contain a clause about insults, so if the moderator does not intervene, it must be a compliment. No?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:39:57
    Hello Alan,

    On Monday January 17 2022 01:51, you wrote to me:

    Sure, if you were an editor/co-editor of the gazette and the echo
    and you made realistic rulings.

    Realistic rules... Realistic according to whose judgement?

    The users of this area.

    What if there is no concensus among those users? An election?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Oli on Monday, January 17, 2022 03:29:20
    Why do you ignore the rules?

    Because I can, because Sean does ignore his own rules too? Because why do I need to care about Sean's same rules in every fucking echo he's grabbed?

    I see.

    What is the issue if Sean continues on with the gazette?

    Does it matter if Janis passed it to him or if he carries on?

    I don't have any issue with that. Most of the issues I skimmed had even less content than Fidonews (meaning no new content beside the political quote from Janis). But if he is committed, why not.

    The thought of the day a year or so back?

    The whole thing is pretty ridiculous. Ward attacking "Nuke the echo", Sean defending by self-appointing him as moderator and posting rules. Michiel asking for proof and questioning Janis gender. Everyone blabbering about zone wars and some stories from the past that have been told over and over again...

    Yes, it's blight we have all seen before.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 03:32:32
    Realistic rules... Realistic according to whose judgement?

    The users of this area.

    What if there is no concensus among those users?

    What makes you think there is no concensus?

    An election?

    Sure, you could hold an election in the UTF-8 or IPV6 area.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Oli on Monday, January 17, 2022 13:56:41
    Hello Oli,

    On Monday January 17 2022 11:54, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Michiel asking for proof and questioning Janis gender.

    Qua? I questioned Janis' gender?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 13:57:59
    Hello Alan,

    On Monday January 17 2022 03:32, you wrote to me:

    Realistic rules... Realistic according to whose judgement?

    The users of this area.

    What if there is no concensus among those users?

    What makes you think there is no concensus?

    What makes you think I think there is no concensus?

    I posed an "if" question. I made no statement regarding the status of the "if".


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 05:41:24
    What if there is no concensus among those users?

    What makes you think there is no concensus?

    What makes you think I think there is no concensus?

    I posed an "if" question. I made no statement regarding the status of the "if"

    Uh huh.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 17, 2022 15:04:51
    Hello Ward,

    On Monday January 17 2022 08:23, you wrote to mark lewis:


    Sean has a big mouth and will not deliver, he's famous for that.

    He won't get past issue #5 because there will be no decent content,
    no-one will write it every week and he surely won't either ... and you know I'm right.

    He has already failed to deliver. The Gazette was a weekly publication, to be published each end every Monday. On Jan 6th, Sean announced his take over, effective _immidiately_.

    Today is the SECOND Mondag after that announcement. No Gazette...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 15:15:49
    Michiel wrote (2022-01-17):

    MvdV> On Monday January 17 2022 11:54, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    Michiel asking for proof and questioning Janis gender.

    MvdV> Qua? I questioned Janis' gender?

    No, you didn't. Sorry, I misread one of your mails.

    ---
    * Origin: Birds aren't real (2:280/464.47)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Alan Ianson on Monday, January 17, 2022 15:17:13
    What if there is no concensus among those users?

    What makes you think there is no concensus?

    {just had to clean the glasses of my spectacles before re-reading...}

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 17, 2022 09:12:00
    Hello Ward Dossche!

    ** On Monday 17.01.22 - 08:23, Ward Dossche wrote to mark lewis:

    Sean has a big mouth and will not deliver, he's famous for
    that.

    He won't get past issue #5 because there will be no decent
    content, no-one will write it every week and he surely
    won't either ... and you know I'm right.

    You are presupposing that the newsletter will be weekly and
    mirrors the current Fidonews model. What if Sean decides to
    make it a monthly, or change it up and simply issue something
    when a certain minimum of content is reached? Maybe the issues
    will be random. That's his perogative. It could be a whole new
    approach to a newsletter, one that you've never seen before.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: A successful diet is the triumph of mind over platter. (2:221/1.58)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 09:20:00
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Monday 17.01.22 - 10:32, you wrote to me:

    The principle of "the burden of proof is on the one making
    the claim" is used in science. That is where I come from.

    My understanding of "burden of proof" (BOP) is that it only
    comes into play when the claim is of an accusatory nature: in a
    dispute. Same thing applies when filing insurance claims,
    criminal claims, etc.. All of those types have a root damage
    associated with the claim. Sean's claim does not encompass
    damages or harm.

    Sean's claim was not a dispute. It was a statement. Your
    response was accusatory (possibly harmful to character) that
    his statement was false, thus the burden was on you.

    HOWEVER, I read that BOP can also apply in science where a
    certain claim is made, and thus the BOP is on the scientist.
    But I doubt that BOP is an issue unless the scientist ends up
    in litigation, where a harm is associated with the claim.

    This echo transfer matter issue is far from a harmful nature.
    And, as I pointed it out it is very easy for Janis to have
    communicated the necessary password for elist purposes.
    Occam's razor comes to mind. ;) No need to delve into complex
    theories of foul play. That's much more complicated.

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 15:33:00
    Hello August,

    On Monday January 17 2022 09:20, you wrote to me:

    The principle of "the burden of proof is on the one making
    the claim" is used in science. That is where I come from.

    My understanding of "burden of proof" (BOP) is that it only
    comes into play when the claim is of an accusatory nature:

    Your understanding is wrong.

    And, as I pointed it out it is very easy for Janis to have
    communicated the necessary password for elist purposes.
    Occam's razor comes to mind. ;)

    If Janis did indeed choose Sean as her intended successor and gave him the password, why did she not inform her readers when she announced her departure?

    No need to delve into complex theories of foul play. That's much more complicated.

    There is no need for complexity. It would not be the first time that there was intervention from the e-list keeper to recover a "stranded" listing...

    I would not call it foul play if the e-list keeper had marked the listing as "available" when Janis left.

    Unfortunately the sad reality is that foul play has been a significant factor on many occasions in Fidonet.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 17:08:40
    August,

    You are presupposing that the newsletter will be weekly and
    mirrors the current Fidonews model. What if Sean decides to
    make it a monthly, ....

    I think he already mentioned bi-weekly ... which should have the next issue rolling off the presses this week.

    I'm nervously waiting ...

    It could be a whole new
    approach to a newsletter, one that you've never seen before.

    Dream on.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From August Abolins@2:221/1.58 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:40:00
    Hello Michiel!

    ** On Monday 17.01.22 - 15:33, you wrote to me:

    If Janis did indeed choose Sean as her intended successor
    and gave him the password, why did she not inform her
    readers when she announced her departure?

    Methinks that you would need to ask Janis. Google revealed her
    @gmail address quite readily at a Synchronet-based BBS.

    In the last few weeks she announced frustrations in getting a
    replacement pc operating. Meanwhile, maybe a completely
    different matter (ie. family|health) arose and became a
    priority. Give her a break.


    There is no need for complexity. It would not be the first
    time that there was intervention from the e-list keeper to
    recover a "stranded" listing...

    Now it sounds like you would need to ask the elist-keeper. ;)

    There is no point expounding on maybees and whatifs. You know
    how to contact people directly if you want.


    I would not call it foul play if the e-list keeper had marked the
    listing as "available" when Janis left.

    Perhaps ask the elist-keeper what he knows.


    Unfortunately the sad reality is that foul play has been a
    significant factor on many occasions in Fidonet.

    No point in dwelling and rehashing the past either. Onward and
    upward.
    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (2:221/1.58)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 18:13:13
    Onward and upward.

    Why drag me into this? :-)

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Sean Dennis@1:18/200 to Dan Clough on Monday, January 17, 2022 12:25:30
    Hello Dan,

    Sunday January 16 2022 21:59, you wrote to Alan Ianson:

    There isn't one. The above mentioned assholes just like to cause problems, and are resistive to ANY change. I think that they actually also believe that their "knowledge" of ancient-history FidoNet gives
    them some kind of power, or something.

    Just do what I do: ignore them. I have "cheated" and fired up my twit filter, putting both Ward and Michiel in it along with a few other people, mainly from Zone 2. I could try to moderate them but since Ward and his sycophants helped "decentralize" Fidonet, Ward would just find another feed somewhere or create a strawman, much like how Bjorn Felten has been participating in the POLITICS echo as Lee Lofaso (and other echoes) after being banned in that echo in the early "naughties".

    They are not worth giving attention with their long history of histrionics, lying, backstabbing, and [insert your favorite noun here]. They are part of the "old guard", a.k.a. the "Fido Lords", who are dying off (some cases quite literally).

    We have better things to do.

    Instead of talking about these people, may I invite you to write some content for the FG and put your energy to good use?

    With my near-death experience in 2020, I learned that time is too precious to waste it on those who are not worth it.

    -- Sean

    ... WinErr 01D: Keyboard error - press F12 to continue.
    --- GoldED/2 3.0.1
    * Origin: Outpost BBS Sysop Console (1:18/200)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 17, 2022 19:46:12
    Hello Ward,

    Monday January 17 2022 15:04, I wrote to you:

    He has already failed to deliver. The Gazette was a weekly
    publication, to be published each end every Monday. On Jan 6th, Sean announced his take over, effective _immidiately_.

    Today is the SECOND Monday after that announcement. No Gazette...

    OK, I take it back. I just received the first copy of the New Gazette.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Sean Dennis on Monday, January 17, 2022 20:18:30
    Sean,

    Just do what I do: ignore them.

    For someone claiming to ignore me them they us, you sure seem obsessed by me them they us judged by the time and effort you put into it.

    They are not worth giving attention with their long history of
    histrionics, lying, backstabbing, and [insert your favorite noun here].

    I don't think I ever lied to you or backstabbed you ... I always called you an asshole or something of that nature and stuck to that. No deviation.

    I still take pride warning ZC1 against you after you advertized yourself as the future second in command of Z1 after talks you had with Nick.

    With my near-death experience in 2020, I learned that time is too
    precious to waste it on those who are not worth it.

    That's a truth ... I barely survived Covid-19 in 2020 ... you're still an asshole. A surviving asshole.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 20:40:32
    Michiel,

    OK, I take it back. I just received the first copy of the New Gazette.

    Yes, but there's nothing in it...It's a pile of self-idolizing and mental masturbation ... the FreeBSD compile stuff is, as the name says, free ... nothing Eartshattering.

    The only thing I really found funny is ...

    "Am I getting older or is the supermarket finally playing great music?"

    ... but even in humour there's nothing authentic. It's stolen as well.

    OK, now wait a week and see wazzup and what follows...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Ward Dossche on Monday, January 17, 2022 21:41:07
    Hello Ward,

    On Monday January 17 2022 20:40, you wrote to me:

    OK, I take it back. I just received the first copy of the New
    Gazette.

    Yes, but there's nothing in it...It's a pile of self-idolizing and
    mental masturbation ... the FreeBSD compile stuff is, as the name
    says, free ... nothing Eartshattering.

    Plus that the BBS software list is shamelessly plagiarized from Fidonews.

    The only thing I really found funny is ...

    "Am I getting older or is the supermarket finally playing great music?"

    ... but even in humour there's nothing authentic. It's stolen as well.

    Yep.

    OK, now wait a week and see wazzup and what follows...

    We will see...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to August Abolins on Monday, January 17, 2022 21:46:42
    Hello August,

    On Monday January 17 2022 11:40, you wrote to me:

    If Janis did indeed choose Sean as her intended successor
    and gave him the password, why did she not inform her
    readers when she announced her departure?

    Methinks that you would need to ask Janis. Google revealed her
    @gmail address quite readily at a Synchronet-based BBS.

    I do not care what youthinks I should do. I was merely pointing out that there are some loose ends in your reasoning.

    In the last few weeks she announced frustrations in getting a
    replacement pc operating. Meanwhile, maybe a completely
    different matter (ie. family|health) arose and became a
    priority. Give her a break.

    That is precisely what I am going to do. I do not know what is wrong with Janis but is is clear to me that she did not want to share it with us or she would have. I am going to respect that and not bother her with it. I will leave her alone.

    There is no need for complexity. It would not be the first
    time that there was intervention from the e-list keeper to
    recover a "stranded" listing...

    Now it sounds like you would need to ask the elist-keeper. ;)

    No need. I am not interested in the e-list and so I am not interested in how Sean managed to get this area listed. All I did was pointing out to you that him getting the password from Janis is neither the only possibility nor the one best fitting Ockham's razor.

    There is no point expounding on maybees and whatifs. You know
    how to contact people directly if you want.

    I am not. I am merely pointing out that Sean has not backed up his claim that he received e-mail from Janis. Lacking that, I will file it as "unsubstantiated".


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Monday, January 17, 2022 18:14:00
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Oh yeah, the FidoNews is chock full of submissions/content.

    What a joke. I haven't seen a *SINGLE* submission there in MONTHS
    (at least).

    You missed my article in the first issue of this year?

    Apparently I must have. Oh well.

    How many articles did YOU write for Fidonews in the last decade?

    None. But I'm not the one bitching about it and the Gazette.


    ... A day without sunshine is like night.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Sean Dennis on Monday, January 17, 2022 18:18:00
    Sean Dennis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    There isn't one. The above mentioned assholes just like to cause problems, and are resistive to ANY change. I think that they actually also believe that their "knowledge" of ancient-history FidoNet gives
    them some kind of power, or something.

    Just do what I do: ignore them. I have "cheated" and fired up my
    twit filter, putting both Ward and Michiel in it along with a few
    other people, mainly from Zone 2. I could try to moderate them
    but since Ward and his sycophants helped "decentralize" Fidonet,
    Ward would just find another feed somewhere or create a strawman,
    much like how Bjorn Felten has been participating in the POLITICS
    echo as Lee Lofaso (and other echoes) after being banned in that
    echo in the early "naughties".

    Yep, I'm aware of that too.

    They are not worth giving attention with their long history of histrionics, lying, backstabbing, and [insert your favorite noun
    here]. They are part of the "old guard", a.k.a. the "Fido
    Lords", who are dying off (some cases quite literally).

    We have better things to do.

    Yes indeed. I've nearly bitten off most of my tongue already trying
    not to respond to them, but I'll try harder.

    Instead of talking about these people, may I invite you to write
    some content for the FG and put your energy to good use?

    If I can come up with a suitable topic and a little time, I certainly
    will do that.


    ... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dan Clough on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 10:33:09
    Hello Dan,

    On Monday January 17 2022 18:14, you wrote to me:

    How many articles did YOU write for Fidonews in the last decade?

    None. But I'm not the one bitching about it and the Gazette.

    = start quote ===

    Oh yeah, the FidoNews is chock full of submissions/content.

    What a joke. I haven't seen a *SINGLE* submission there in MONTHS (at least). It's just an automated posting of lame useless bullshit, like
    how many IPV6 nodes there are, and a list of retro software. Every
    single issue is exactly the same. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

    === end quote ===


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 13:49:48
    Yes indeed. I've nearly bitten off most of my tongue already trying
    not to respond to them, but I'll try harder.

    Do tongues grow back? :-)

    Enjoy the day,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 17:33:00
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    How many articles did YOU write for Fidonews in the last decade?

    None. But I'm not the one bitching about it and the Gazette.

    = start quote ===

    Oh yeah, the FidoNews is chock full of submissions/content.

    What a joke. I haven't seen a *SINGLE* submission there in MONTHS (at least). It's just an automated posting of lame useless bullshit, like
    how many IPV6 nodes there are, and a list of retro software. Every
    single issue is exactly the same. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

    === end quote ===

    Okay, you're slower than I thought. Let me clarify what I thought was
    already obvious:

    When I said I wasn't bitching about the FidoNews/FidoGazette, I meant
    in regards to not throwing a hissy fit about somebody taking over the FG
    after it's previous manager pulled the plug.

    Why do you care if S.D. (re)takes over the FG? Did *YOU* want to take
    it over? Is that why your panties are so bunched up? If not, then do
    us all a favor and STFU and let those that want to continue it do so.

    My statement above about the FN being nothing more than an automated
    posting of lame bullshit is completely accurate. In fact my echomail
    dupe checker filters out half the messages (pages) of it because they
    are EXACTLY the same as the previous week's. I'll give you credit for
    posting an article recently, but that's a rarity and you know it.

    I'm about done with this conversation, so don't bother.



    ... If it weren't for Edison we'd be using computers by candlelight
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From August Abolins@1:396/45.29 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 20:08:00
    Hello Ward Dossche!

    ** On Monday 17.01.22 - 18:13, Ward Dossche wrote to August Abolins:

    Onward and upward.

    Why drag me into this? :-)

    <groan>

    But don't get too excited. The first "ward" could work as a
    compliment, but the second one not so much. ;)

    --
    ../|ug

    --- OpenXP 5.0.51
    * Origin: (1:396/45.29)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to August Abolins on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 02:24:30
    August,

    Onward and upward.

    Why drag me into this? :-)

    <groan>

    But don't get too excited. The first "ward" could work as a
    compliment, but the second one not so much. ;)

    Obama did it too to me. The slogan during his 2nd campaign was "For Ward" ...

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 02:31:54
    Dan,

    Okay, you're slower than I thought. Let me clarify what I thought was already obvious:

    The fact you have to explain yourself, is a revelation on its own.

    "Dossche's Law #6 on electronic communications" applies to you ..

    #6
    "If a person needs several paragraphs to say something
    basic, it's nonsense or a lie ... unless you happen to be
    Jane Austen or Vera Brittain, then it's like poetry"

    Take care,

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 19:44:00
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    Okay, you're slower than I thought. Let me clarify what I thought was already obvious:

    The fact you have to explain yourself, is a revelation on its
    own.

    "Dossche's Law #6 on electronic communications" applies to you ..

    #6
    "If a person needs several paragraphs to say something
    basic, it's nonsense or a lie ... unless you happen to be
    Jane Austen or Vera Brittain, then it's like poetry"

    You don't *have* to defend him, you know.

    Just because he's a fellow "old guard" Fido dude doesn't mean he's
    not an asshole. It *could* mean that you're both assholes.



    ... Never assume the obvious is true!
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Ward Dossche on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:19:22
    "Dossche's Law #6 on electronic communications" applies to you ..

    I would love to see these laws in one go, perhaps in one the Fido mags?

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Terry Roati on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 13:52:13
    "Dossche's Law #6 on electronic communications" applies to you ..

    I would love to see these laws in one go, perhaps in one the Fido mags?

    I've been toying with the idea to turn them into an article ...

    Maybe ...

    Do you take "Fidonews" ?

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Dan Clough on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 14:49:27
    Dan,

    You don't *have* to defend him, you know.

    Just because he's a fellow "old guard" Fido dude doesn't mean he's
    not an asshole. It *could* mean that you're both assholes.

    Don't try to immitate the one whose name we're not supposed to mention, he mastered the art.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Ward Dossche on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 22:59:40
    Hi Ward,

    I've been toying with the idea to turn them into an article ...

    Maybe ...

    Do you take "Fidonews" ?

    Yep, I appreciated your article on when you caught covid, very canid and informative. Your one lucky man.

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From mark lewis@1:3634/12.73 to Ward Dossche on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 09:16:32
    On 2022 Jan 19 14:49:26, you wrote to Dan Clough:

    Just because he's a fellow "old guard" Fido dude doesn't mean he's
    not an asshole. It *could* mean that you're both assholes.

    Don't try to immitate the one whose name we're not supposed to
    mention, he mastered the art.

    only because he was competing with other assholes :lol:

    calling him/them assholes is unfortunate, though... real assholes are useful... they allow waste to be removed when they do their job ;) :lol:

    )\/(ark

    "The soul of a small kitten in the body of a mighty dragon. Look on my majesty, ye mighty, and despair! Or bring me catnip. Your choice. Oooh, a shiny thing!"
    ... 25. If you choose to go in drag, don't sell yourself short.
    ---
    * Origin: (1:3634/12.73)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Terry Roati on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 16:33:19
    Terry,

    Do you take "Fidonews" ?

    Yep, I appreciated your article on when you caught covid, very canid and informative. Your one lucky man.

    Thank you sir.

    I wish more people would heed the warning, I looked the beast in the mouth, smelled the breath ... get vaccinated ... please.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Ward Dossche on Thursday, January 20, 2022 08:17:58
    On Jan 19, 2022 04:33pm, Ward Dossche wrote to Terry Roati:

    Thank you sir.

    Definitely not a sir.

    In Thailand, if they called you sir and it was pronounced a certain way it could be nasty. (sticks & stones)

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Ward Dossche@2:292/854 to Terry Roati on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 23:29:24
    In Thailand, if they called you sir and it was pronounced a certain way
    it could be nasty. (sticks & stones)

    The only thing I know about Thailand a bit, is the cuisine ... I like it ... a lot.

    \%/@rd

    --- DB4 - Jan 15 2022
    * Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)
  • From Terry Roati@3:640/1321 to Ward Dossche on Thursday, January 20, 2022 08:42:10
    On Jan 19, 2022 11:29pm, Ward Dossche wrote to Terry Roati:

    The only thing I know about Thailand a bit, is the cuisine ... I like
    it ... a lot.

    In Cairns, there are now more Thai resturants than any other, and they all
    seem to be doing well. I have tried them all :)

    Terry

    ... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
    * Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
  • From Dan Clough@1:123/115 to Ward Dossche on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 17:47:00
    Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

    You don't *have* to defend him, you know.

    Just because he's a fellow "old guard" Fido dude doesn't mean he's
    not an asshole. It *could* mean that you're both assholes.

    Don't try to immitate the one whose name we're not supposed to
    mention, he mastered the art.

    Don't be an asshole.



    ... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
    === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
    * Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)
  • From Mike Powell@1:2320/105 to WARD DOSSCHE on Thursday, January 20, 2022 18:07:00
    The only thing I know about Thailand a bit, is the cuisine ... I like it ... a >ot.

    Yes, it is tasty.

    Mike


    * SLMR 2.1a * Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn?
    --- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)