• Re: laptops

    From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Thursday, November 05, 2020 10:27:27
    On 11/4/2020 10:38 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    That's one thing that confuses me a bit about Apple's decision to

    switch to ARM for their Macs. Since they switched to Intel, one of

    What editor are you using? When you quoted my paragraphs, it was only putting a quote character (>) on the first line, and the rest of the lines in my paragraphs didn't have a quote character in front.

    Yeah, it does that (Thunderbird over NNTP). It's because your original message doesn't include actual line breaks, so it's a long, single line
    in the quote.

    As to emulating windows, or running windows apps, I'm not sure if they
    will work with MS towards better support, or drop the idea altogether
    since core MS apps have Apple and Online versions, and there's likely
    less use of Windows emulation these days compared to even a few years ago.

    It's not "Windows emulation" (I haven't heard that term anyway). Currently, Windows can run on Macs because they use Intel processors - there's no emulation involved. And for the ARM macs, they'd have to emulate an Intel processor to enable Windows to run - not necessarily emulating Windows (I'm not enturely sure what "Windows emulation" would mean, exactly).

    I was referring to the ARM case, where using Windows apps would likely
    be via emulation, and on ARM for x86 windows would be a poor experience
    most likely. Of course there is Windows ARM, but without x86 there are
    so few apps that are Windows ARM and Windows Only that it's not worth
    the effort most likely.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Thursday, November 05, 2020 19:13:44
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Thu Nov 05 2020 10:27 am

    What editor are you using? When you quoted my paragraphs, it was only
    putting a quote character (>) on the first line, and the rest of the
    lines in my paragraphs didn't have a quote character in front.

    Yeah, it does that (Thunderbird over NNTP). It's because your original message doesn't include actual line breaks, so it's a long, single line in the quote.

    Both SlyEdit and FSEditor for Synchronet do that now. The assumption is that the reader should handle line wrapping. Is there a way to configure the line length for quoting messages in Thunderbird?


    I was referring to the ARM case, where using Windows apps would likely
    be via emulation, and on ARM for x86 windows would be a poor experience most likely. Of course there is Windows ARM, but without x86 there are
    so few apps that are Windows ARM and Windows Only that it's not worth
    the effort most likely.

    I think it's geting more interesting now that Microsoft is developing a version of Windows 10 for ARM now too. I've heard that version of Windows 10 also has a 32-bit x86 emulator so that you can run 32-bit Intel desktop software in the ARM version of Windows 10. So it sounds like Intel processor emulation can be done on ARM, at least for a 32-bit Intel processor. What's also interesting is you might be able to run the ARM version of Windows 10 on an ARM mac with Boot Camp, or in a virtual machine, the same way you can run Windows for Intel on an Intel Mac.

    Nightfox

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  • From HusTler@VERT/HAVENS to Arelor on Friday, November 06, 2020 00:22:36
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Arelor to HusTler on Thu Nov 05 2020 10:09 am

    I tried Puppy Linux some time ago, when I was a Linux n00b, and I found it interesting. It was a bit buggy, though.

    If yoiu enjoy ultra-compact Linux distributions, Tiny Core Linux is worth checking. Keep in mind the core has the barebones necessary to boot and offe you a shell, and not much else. You are supposed to build up from there.

    I actually wrote an article for Linux Magazine about packaging and deploying Tiny Core Linux extensions. It should be hitting the presses not long from n I have been testing it with some very old computers we have at work because might be the difference between throwing them away or not.

    Let me know when it gets printed. The Puppy linux is novel to me. It's interesting. Very close to Ubuntu. As they say Puppy linux is "Grandpa Certified" lol

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Friday, November 06, 2020 12:29:53
    On 11/5/2020 8:13 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Yeah, it does that (Thunderbird over NNTP). It's because your original
    message doesn't include actual line breaks, so it's a long, single line
    in the quote.

    Both SlyEdit and FSEditor for Synchronet do that now. The assumption is
    that the reader should handle line wrapping. Is there a way to
    configure the line length for quoting messages in Thunderbird?

    It wraps to the natural view in reading. It does wrap what is
    typed/added as you type, but not quoted parts, it leaves those pretty
    much as-is. And Thunderbird feels like they've been removing pieces
    lately and don't know that it'll change.

    I was referring to the ARM case, where using Windows apps would likely
    be via emulation, and on ARM for x86 windows would be a poor experience
    most likely. Of course there is Windows ARM, but without x86 there are
    so few apps that are Windows ARM and Windows Only that it's not worth
    the effort most likely.

    I think it's geting more interesting now that Microsoft is developing a version of Windows 10 for ARM now too. I've heard that version of
    Windows 10 also has a 32-bit x86 emulator so that you can run 32-bit
    Intel desktop software in the ARM version of Windows 10.

    Yeah, I don't suspect that Mac will allow booting another OS, also don't
    know about virtualizing x86 windows on arm windows, emulated on arm mac.

    So it sounds
    like Intel processor emulation can be done on ARM, at least for a 32-bit Intel processor. What's also interesting is you might be able to run the
    ARM version of Windows 10 on an ARM mac with Boot Camp, or in a virtual machine, the same way you can run Windows for Intel on an Intel Mac.

    I wouldn't expect a bootcamp option for ARM macs at all if you consider
    iOS device lockdown. Emulation might work, and may be crazy slow. I'm
    just not sure what practical applications most users need that would necessitate an x86 windows emulation on an ARM mac.

    Note: I'm not against it, I just don't see it happening.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Tracker1 on Friday, November 06, 2020 15:43:05
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to Nightfox on Fri Nov 06 2020 12:29 pm

    Yeah, I don't suspect that Mac will allow booting another OS, also don't know about virtualizing x86 windows on arm windows, emulated on arm mac.

    I wouldn't expect a bootcamp option for ARM macs at all if you consider iOS device lockdown. Emulation might work, and may be crazy slow. I'm just not sure what practical applications most users need that would necessitate an x86 windows emulation on an ARM mac.

    Note: I'm not against it, I just don't see it happening.

    The ability to boot Windows on an Intel Mac has been one of their selling points since they switched to Intel processors. Since both Apple and Microsoft are now making versions of their OS for ARM-based processors, I imagined Apple would still want to allow booting Windows to appeal to those who'd want to do that. But I guess they could go either way.

    Nightfox

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  • From Tracker1@VERT/TRN to Nightfox on Saturday, November 07, 2020 09:31:57
    On 11/6/2020 4:43 PM, Nightfox wrote:
    Note: I'm not against it, I just don't see it happening.

    The ability to boot Windows on an Intel Mac has been one of their
    selling points since they switched to Intel processors. Since both
    Apple and Microsoft are now making versions of their OS for ARM-
    based processors, I imagined Apple would still want to allow booting
    Windows to appeal to those who'd want to do that. But I guess they
    could go either way.

    Just based on their actions with iOS, and that Macs are largely only
    sold for media production and to support (mostly Apple) software
    development, I just don't see them caring about keeping that ability. I
    do think they may take some effort to make Docker work better for
    developers, not sure if they'd get to WSL2 type levels though.

    They're really about locking down the boot loader and system access,
    allowing for booting other OSes may undermine that... Not to mention,
    it's not generic arm and has some custom chipsets involved from Apple it
    may not even work well then.

    --
    Michael J. Ryan
    tracker1 +o Roughneck BBS

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  • From Bob Roberts@VERT/HOVAL to Nightfox on Saturday, November 07, 2020 14:42:52
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Fri Nov 06 2020 03:43 pm

    points since they switched to Intel processors. Since both Apple and Microsoft are now making versions of their OS for ARM-based processors, I imagined Apple would still want to allow booting Windows to appeal to those who'd want to do that. But I guess they could go either way.

    We should know soon enough. Rumor is the Apple Event on 11/10 will be the release of the Apple Silicon based iMac, 13 inch and 16 inch Macbooks. I'm sure our favorite YouTube tech reviewers will get them soon.

    |01bobbobbobbob|09bob|03bob|11bob|03bob|09bob|01bobbobbob |01robrobrobrob|09rob|03rob|11rob|03rob|09rob|01robrobrob
    |07




    ... Common sense is instinct. Enough of it is genius.

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  • From Sprite@VERT/TINTETBB to HusTler on Monday, November 16, 2020 20:37:24
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: HusTler to Tracker1 on Wed Nov 04 2020 12:11:58

    Lubuntu has been my OS of choice for about 6 years now. Recently I felt li a change so now I'm duel booting into Lubuntu and Puppy Linux. So far I'm enjoying Puppy. It's chock full of every utility you can think of and more. It's blazing fast. I'll give my full report in about 6 months. :-).

    I might have to give that a shot for one of my ancient laptops around here. I've found OpenBSD to work decently on one of them, but I'd really like something with a little more native software available.

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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to poindexter FORTRAN, Moond on Sunday, November 29, 2020 09:52:44
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: poindexter FORTRAN to Moondog on Thu Oct 29 2020 06:34 am

    Lubuntu is another fine choice for low-end systems. Uses LXDE and a
    selection of smaller-footprint apps than vanilla Ubuntu. I ran it
    well on single-core Thinkpads with a gig of RAM for years.

    I have an old thinkpad with a duo core and 4gb of Ram that came with Windows 8 Stock. It still has the old Windows 7 build I replaced the base system with, but I'm playing with Linux Distros now. Mint on xkde gets me good performance, but I'm finding it limited in terms of trying to get things set up the way I want. Namely, I'm having a hard time replacing with window managers and default terminal. I hope replacing my shell commands won't be hard either. I'm only a day in since having dropped Linux in Highschool.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■
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  • From Vlk-451@VERT/INREALM to Tracker1 on Sunday, November 29, 2020 09:57:33
    Re: Re: laptops
    By: Tracker1 to poindexter FORTRAN on Tue Nov 03 2020 03:52 pm

    From what they've done with iOS devices, seriously doubtful. Today's
    Apple products are tomorrow's e-waste.

    That's just more loot for me, the dumpster diver who's desk is made of two metal trashcans keeping up a surface that's made of two flat cardboard boxes ducktaped together, and filled with trash to add structral integrity.

    Shit, with all that spare mineral resources I can take to the recycler plant, I'll have enough money to get a bus ticket to the city so I can steal a bike and take it apart and put it back together in my garage for hours.

    ■ Crystal Palace, Orbitsville ■
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